2 topic post; hybrid electric assist gas sipper cars and gun rant!

E

ernest2

New member
We all drive and we are by now pretty sick
of the manufactured price gouging at the gas pumps.

I spent 8 hours on the net, trying to find out if anyone was doing anything meaningfull about the problem.

Honda and Toyota came to our rescue,
with models currently for sale now in the USA

The gasoline prices will only start a constant increase, costing more and more every year and NOT GOING DOWN, except for temporary 6 or 10 cent a gal roll backs as
state & fed taxes are slowly repealed to keep the econimy from going bust.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT WE ARE BEGINING TO RUN OUT OF OIL,FOR GOOD!

After all, we have been drawing down those wells since 1912, for 88 years and at an ever
increasing rate.

Sooner or later, but not more that 12 years, the soda straw is gonna slurp!!!

How does $6.50 a gallon hit you?
Say 3 years from now?

Yea,just grab your beer and go back to sleep in front of tv again.Sure, that solves a lot!
Or, read on ,McDuff!
----------------------------------
HYBRID CARS-- GASOLINE ENGINES WITH ELECTRIC ASSIST-----
---------------------------------------------
I found out that two models are for sale in the USA right now!!!!!!

The Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius---- both cost 18,000.oo to 20,000.oo and the decieding factor between both cars are mostly:


Seating Capacity and standard or automatic transmission, with fuel consumption only a minor factor an both are reasonably close to each other.

----------------------------------------------
Honda Insight is 2 seater, only holds 2 people and only comes with a
5 speed manual transmission.

Gets 61 MPG CITY and 70 MPG HIGHWAY

------------------------------------------------
The Toyota Prisus SEATS FOUR and has an AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION , a big factor not to be overlooked by those of us that don't get along well with standard shift.
I never could get the hang of starting up on a steep hill with a clutch!! Also ,seating four allows you to put stuff in the back
seat if it isn't filled with people.


Gas milage is not quite so good as the Honda Insight, but automatic transmission and back seats are, for my money, well worth it.

bOTH THE HONDA INSIGHT AND THE TOYOTA
shut off the gasoline engine when you stop at a red light to save on gas and use the electric motor to start up the car when the light changes.The driver never even notices this because it is controlled by the on board computer.

US auto manufacturers will be making cars somewhat similar to these, begining in 2004,
for the first models.Honda and Toyota definatly have the jump on us ,yet again.

I expect the US models to have bugs in them
for the first 2 or 3 years , while the
Honda is new production for 1999, the Toyota
Prius has been around since 1997 and had more
chances(3 years worth) for the bugs to be more worked out.

The Honda Insight is essentially a super fuel efficient 3 cylinder
1,000cc [1 litre] 68 hp gas engine with a 9 hp electric assist motor
replacing the traditional flywheel between the gas engine and the transmission. Battery power is provided by 120 --D cell-- thats right,
flashlight cell type batteries, but ni cad rechargable.

The way that the Honda Insight works is that a on board computer
determines when to blend in the electric motor power to assist the gas engine. Fuel econimy comes from the small & high efficiency 3 cylinder motor as well as the fuel saving due to 9 hp electric boost in regards to the ultra high end gearing of both 4th and 5th gears and the .25 drag coefficient of the ultra areodymanic design of the mostly alluminum and plastic car body. The Honda Insight only wieghs 1835 pounds fully fueled.

4th & 5th gears are geared so high that the electric boost has to kick in on a 5 % grade to help maintain current speed. But ,what a gas miser!
61 city & 70 highway! Electric boost is only good for 15 miles on a 5%
upgrade but after the batteries drain out, the gas motor keeps you going although you need to downshift to third gear and forget about passing.

A good feature of the Honda Insight is that no expensive recharger is needed because batteries recharge from the altinator while the gas engine is running and also from dynamo breaking (the wheels drive the electric motor as a alternator, recharging the batteries, when your foot is off the gas and at the same time acting as a brake while coasting to a halt.)

Normal hydralic power brakes are available with a push of the brake pedal for quick stops.


Honda Insight - my suggestions- The Insight is prone to swift unintentional partial lane changes in a stiff cross wind or when a
18 wheeler passes you out fast. This condition can be alliviated by
changing the narrow factory tires to wider tires but will cost you some gas milage. A partial trade off of a little less gas milage for increased safety.

I( know a little) because my 1987 Dodge Colt had the same problem until I put on wider tires, then, end of problem.

Drawbacks to Honda Insight 1. High 20,000.oo price 2. Two seater only
3. standard shift 4. tire change for high wind safety.

Advantage of Honda Insight: Highest gas milage of all to date. 112 mph top speed with
full batteries.

If you drive a really lot, the car will be very cost efficient and more so as gasoline prices continue to climb through out the years.

Poor people: wait for the price to drop when production finally increases. Currently, only 5,000 per year are made.When gasoline
hits 3.50 a gallon, demand & production will increase and price of car should then drop
as it is mass produced less expensively.
---------------------------------------------
THE TOYOTA PRIUS
1497 cc gas 4 cyl @ 57 hp and 40hp electric motor, AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION AND SEATS 4 , BODY STYLE SIMILAR TO TOYOTA COROLLA

This is a heavier and more pratical car, the 40hp electic motor being
powered by 40- 7.2 volt nickel/metal hydride batteries.

Top speed is 97 MPH with full battery and 91 MPH with empty battery.

Gas milage is 66MPG CITY AND 50 HIGHWAY .

Yes ,The city milage is always better
than the highway milage with the Toyota Prius.......
BECAUSE THE ELECTRIC MOTOR IS USED TO GET THE CAR GOING UP TO 25mph at which speed,
the gasoline motor is started and blended into the power train by the on board computer.

At cruising speed,the electric is not working but insread being recharged by the altinator in the gas engine.

When passing, the electric motor is kicked in to boost hp from
57hp to 97hp and then shut off after the pass is completed.

Electro-dynamic braking recharges the batteries when the foot is off the gas
and when coasting to a stop.
Power brakes are available with a tap
of the brake pedal for quick stops.
No plug in home recharger is required, as charging is accomplished by the gas engine and dynamic braking.

Some plug in home charging systems for totally electric cars cost 2,500.oo to 3,500.oo

With a hybrid gas/electric car, no
home recharger is needed as electric is only a fuel saving assist and you never get stuck
out of juice as could happen to an all electric car.

Sugestions: Toyota Prius is 4 seater, automatic transmission and heavier
that Honda Insight. while toyota is a little slower and uses a bit more gas, it carries more stuff and more people and is more pratical for more than 2 people.The loss of 20 mpg highway and actually 5 mpg better than Honda city milage is a small price to pay if you hate standard shift and want extra room , wieght & cargo capacity.

Toyota prius 66 city & 50 highway, AT, seats 4.

Honda Insight 61 city & 71 highway , 5 speed standard, seats two
suceptable to wind blown lane changes.Cure this with
wider but less fuel efficient tires.
----------------------------------------------------BEGIN GUN RANT---------------------

Dear Todd: Thanks for your first reply yesterday. I know I sent you a reply yesterday and I got up on my soapbox and shifted into rant mode. I think rant mode is way better than (I couldn't care less mode).

[" I couldn't care less mode " ]is a main reason why the USA is in the mess it is in today.

Liberal Socialists are the other reason
although the Republicans are not much better.
First I was a Democrat,but they lie every time their lips move , so I changed to Republican and only 75% of them lie 75% of the time so I finally became a Libritairian who votes Republican in order to have some meaningfull influence on the course of our nation.

I am one of the falsly called "Gun Nuts" who have more real respect..... and not just lip service like so many liberals do; for their fellow man.

I worry about the USA and like many politicians, I too, took an oath to defend the USA against enimies, both foriegn & domestic.

But ,unlike many politicians,
I do not myself become an enimie, domestic of the USA,
while betraying the office" They" hold and the trust of the voters who made the mistake of electing them.

I mention no names here, I am sure you can fill in the blanks.
Hint, last name starts with C and uses cigars during foreplay.

I have been fighting politically, within the system ,since 1985 to preserve our constitutional & civil firearms rights from an ever increasingly infringing government and I am somewhat worn down and
tired of it,but I am not in a position to be able to stop, even though I would like to. They wont stop,so I can't.

"Just one more "so called reasonable gun control law" and we will leave you alone until Jan of next year ,when we start all over again.

What , the 22,000 gun contol laws you already have aren't good enough???

How about enforcing what you already have on the books; have you "ever" [emphisis added] tried that??

Once a right is lost,once a tax is passed ,once a bad law is passed, you can never get the freedom back, you cant get them to stop stealing your money and you cant get the bad law repealed.


Do you want your childern to grow up defenseless victims of criminals with guns and wage slaves to an ever more oppressive , corrupt and mismanaged government,
which cares only for itself and not one whit for its subjects er,
citizens.

I, for one, do not.


---

hartley wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> Thank you so much for sharing your solution with me.
>
> Yes! Electric sounds great, but we need the demand it, as a people before someone will supply it. I ask that you do
everything that you can to make your family and friends aware of your solution and that they help America take the next step.
>
> Have you been able to read our hydrogen solution designed by Roy Mcalister?
>
> I think that hydrogen is even a greater long term solution than electric. Keep in mind that hydrogen is something we
> can produce here domestically, so our fuel dollars stay in our economy and when hydrogen is burned its emissions are
> zero!
> It creates oxygen cleaner than the air we currently breath.
> So, we'll be skipping 1 rock 5 times.
>
> :
> 1. stopping air pollution
> 2. cleaning the air while we drive
> 3. creating the hydrogen here in the US, and
> creating the largest economic boom we've ever seen($1billion would no longer get exported to the middle east every 3 days)

> 4.Reducing America's dependence on foreign oil and OPEC'S manufactured price gouging at the pumps.
>
5. Doing what we know is right!
>
> Anything gas related is so short sighted for the most ingenious nation on the face of the earth.
>
> Larry, please read that solution and share with me your views. How did you hear about my forum?
>
> Look forward to talking with you again.
>
> Long Live the Resolution!
>
> Todd Hartley
> Your Resolutionary Host
> An American Resolution Talk Radio Show
> www.aarshow.com
> 480-970-8342


[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited April 05, 2000).]
 
I thought I would take a moment to point out a few problems with your electric is the way to go, and gas prices part of your rant(?).
First those hybrid cars are being sold at a loss to the companys making them. That is why so few are being imported. They are taking the loss so that they get in the market. No one in their right mind would pay the 30 or 40k they really cost to make. As for gas prices going up and being gouged. Well maybe we are being gouged right now, but we definatly do not pay as much as other countries on gas. The average a few years back was near 4 dollars a gallon in europe and other parts of the world. Now to be fair, a lot of that is tax, not what gas costs. The US relys on foriegn oil because they produce it cheaper(Cheaper labor etc..) than we can at home. Being a Texan, I some what welcome the increase because that means more Texans working. This means some of the oil fields here will be opening again because gas is expensive enough for the oil companys to make a profit here. I was prepared 4 years ago when Perot sugguested a 50 cent tax on gas to pay off the national debt to pay this 1.50 a gallon for regular. I do not like paying it now because some oil cartel has decided they want more money. I will however be glad to pay it in the future should it turn out to be American oil being used instead because they drove the price too high.
 
Electric cars are not really fuel efficient, nor do they reduce pollution. Remember, the electricity that powers your electric car has to come from something, and that something is usually fossil fuels. All electric cars do is localize pollution levels.

Hydrogen or natural gas is the way to go. I'll be really impressed when they come out with a car equipped with an integral nuclear reactor. :)

Oh, yeah, for an interesting perspective on the source of fossil fuels (a serious misnomer if there ever was one) check out Thomas Gold's "Power From the Earth." Very good book.

Later,
Chris
 
What this country needs right away is a revitalized rail system to get those long haul trucks off the roads, so it's safer for micro hybrid cars on their commute in & out.

The average fuel economy in 1973 was ~15 mpg,
an SUV gets that today with 1/2 the emissions.

Yes, we need even smarter, more efficient commuter cars, but the roads need to be safer for a 1000 pound car. Instead the banks finance bedroom communities 30-50 miles away from the work center with little concern for the sustainability of the commute.

dZ
 
ernest2, your rant was pretty roundabout and had little to do with guns...

Why does it belong on this board, again?
 
Long Path,
I think the reason he posted this was because this forum is labeled General. A place to post wa topic that doesn't fit well into other areas..

But, before this topic is closed for the season, I'll take a stab at this as well.

Oil prices going up, we're told, because some foriegn concern has decided they want more money.. OK.

Now, why again, are we dependant upon foreign oil? Is it because of laws that have so stiffled the US market that they cannot legally produce their product? If thst's the case, then the laws are choking us to death.
We still have a pipeline in Alaska, do we not? How much of that product lands on US soil? And why doesn't it ALL land here instead of to foreign concerns? If I remember when the pipeline was constructed, US dollars paid the bill for it. When tyhe hell as WE AMERICANS going to benefit from our investment. And don't consider tariffs benefitting us, they don't, they benefit government.
Why aren't the wells in Texas, Oklahomas, Kansas, Wyoming, etc being used to capacity?

I can't think of a better way to gain true dependence from foreign influence than to use your own sources.

And next time Saddam Hussein goes on a warpath, let them defend theirself. Let them bomb him with the empty barrels left over there, from the biggest customer they USED to have.

Best Regards,
Don

------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
 
dear long path, this is the first time in a year that I ever posted on a topic not specifically centered on guns. I think and worry about other things that guns, you know and because I think of tfl as family,I want to share my concerns. I believe we are begining to run out of crude oil and as I said ,we all drive.
The gentelman from Texas may only pay 1.50 /gal for gas but here in Ct
the cheapest is 1.68/gal and in NYC 2.oo/gal

He is correct in saying that the govt has kept domestic oil from being employed due to
overbearing government regulation and the is the Alaska Plains Oil Field which is not tapped and could by itseld supply 50 % of our domestic needs.

Yes fuel ecomony has been going up on new cars because it must. We have 30 times as many cars on the road now as we did in 1973

If we intended to keep the fuel usage the same ,we would all have to drive 2/3 less
to take into account the increase of cars & drivers.

Point is ,we pay,out of pocket, for gasoline. Rich people dont care. It does not affect their bugget but poor people can pay
1/3 of their weekly buget just for gas and this ends up badly affecting the economy as a whole.
We are sending 3 billion dollars each day to the middle east instead of keeping it here in the USA.
Things will only get worst as there is less
&less gas which costs us more and more,year after year.

I was worried because I though that every one was as short sighted as some opinions I have heard voiced and that nothing was being done
to really fix or stop our dependency on dwindling oil supplies.

The average fuel ecomony now is probably around 20mpg but many 2000 models get 33mpg
and electric /gas hybrids get 50 to 70 mpg

Hydrogen will be the next important fuel source but the are no factories, no hydrogen refueling stations no manufacturers, no infastructure.

The hydrogen industry will have to be built from the ground up and probably take 10 years to get going, once they decide to start.

And they wont start until it is apparent to
the most brain dead that the gas is gone.

I guess that the earth is 80% empty on crude oil right now so I was alarmed because I forsee shortages and 8.50/gal gasoline.

Probably the only thing that the government did right in quite some time is to enact a law demanding the US auto manufacturers
produce a sedan capable of 80mpg by 2004.

As I get better at reading the writing on the wall, I point it out to others, who prehaps
have not noticed it.

If I am right, sometime in the next 8 years,
you will no longer be able to easily afford
to drive your 15 mpg suv.

I have already pretty much stopped driving
my 87 olds because it costs 34.oo to fill up
at the gouge station. It gets ,maybe 20mpg

I drive my 87 Dodge Colt instead, which fills
up for 16.80 and goes twice as far for twice as long.It gets 34 city & 39 highway.

The honda insight wieghts 1825 pounds and the
toyota prius over 2000 pounds. My dodge colt
wieghts 1885 pounds. Someone mentioned making the road safe for 1000 pound cars. I think
he did not realize that most electric only cars wiegh in at closer to the 1885 pound wieght of my 87 dodge colt, which I have been driving for 13 years now.

I thick his concern for making the road safe for 1000 pound cars is un warranted because first, he would have to find one, which, I believe , he would have serious dificilty doing. There probably are a few out there but
we wont see then in the USA in the next 10 years. They are mostly still concept cars
with the exception of some built for Europe
where gasoline is 4.50 /gal

Unelse you are rich, look for your next car
to get at least 33mpg or wait for the 80 mpg
promised in 2004.

I intend to wait for the 80 mpg in 2004 or get a gas/electric hybird, probably the toyota prius for 18,000.oo It gets 66 city &
50 highway. no home recharging necessary; it recharges whenever you cruise on a level road.

I don't really care about emissions all that
much, I care about the gouge station and my dwindling wallet.
 
This is an interesting topic, so I would hope it is allowed to continue.
ernest2- Yes I pay 1.50 here now, and still think you are overreacting a bit. 10 years ago in California, I was paying 1.50 too. While gas here in Texas was only .89 cents. As for your no manufactures for hydrogen today, I think you will find that there actually are both for the military and civilian market. I know that the military (navy) uses quite a bit of hydrogen in some of their stuff. Civilians use it for chemistry. Not to mention NASA and the few private industries that launch rockets. Now it wouldn't keep up if everyone wanted it tommorrow, but it is hardly not there. Still some one has to generate the electricity to create the hydrogen, and again all you have done is localized the polutions. You are still burning tremendous amounts of natural resources to run these cars whether it be coal or oil. Or until the problem with nuclear waste can be solved.
 
Okay, here goes...

We definately, absolutely, positively have enough oil deposits and enough supply to take us well past 2040.

Gasoline costs about 22 cents/gallon. The rest is taxes and profit.

The internal combustion engine isn't going anywhere for quite a while. Sure, there are a few alternatives out there, but none have really caught on yet. EVs, hybrids, CNG vehicles are all out there. It's just that they suck compared to gasoline engines.

Consider: Four-fifths of a gallon of gasoline has as much energy as 1000 pounds of fully-charged lead-acid batteries. Gasoline's heating value exceeds nitromethane, methanol, propane and natural gas. Gasoline can outperform anything short of certain nitrogen-based rocket fuels, and pure explosives. The only thing that limits its power in piston engines is that it needs a whole lot of air to burn the gas with. The stoichiometric mixture of gasoline and air is like 12.5:1 (12.5 units of air per unit of gasoline) Methanol's mixture is around 6.45:1, while nitromethane (Top fuel dragster stuff) has a mixture of around 2:1.

There's also experimental versions of computer controlled engine management systems that can measure a fuel's specific gravity on the fly and clean-burn whatever you have lying around, wether it's 100% gasoline, 100% methanol, or 100% Jack Daniel's. They'll also burn kerosene, diesel, and fuel oil.

Now, let's look at electrics. For the sake of argument, I'll just point out the EV1 as an overall example of an EV. The range of the EV1 under ideal conditions is about 80 miles. When the temperature goes from 80 to 20 (a figure not at all uncommon in many areas of the country) A lead acid battery loses 33% of its energy content. Cold weather also increases rolling resistance on the tires, makes the battery work even harder because it has to power resistance heaters to heat the cabin in cold weather, it has to run the headlights longer in the shorter winter days, and it also has to run the defrosters. Your range just went from 80 miles to about 12.


As for hydrogen powered vehicles, the energy it takes to produce and package the hydrogen for automotive consuption is about 90 - 95% wasted. People like to piss and moan that gasoline engines are only 15-20% efficient, but the process of manufacturing the hydrogen is only 5-10% efficient.


Also, we have the government setting ideals in opposition to each other. They want cars to get higher and higher MPG figures. One of the best ways to do this is to make cars lighter. Yet the safety nazis over at NHTSA keep putting "safety" crap in the cars that make them heavier and heavier. (As you may be able to tell, I'm not particularly fond of government regulation of the auto industry.)

I guess I'll get off my auto soapbox. It just happens to be one of my other hot buttons.
 
I am going to agree with the others who have pointed out that the supply of oil in the world is no where near depletion. There are large untapped reserves in various parts of the world. To name a few: Central Asia (the 'stan countries), the South China Sea (off the coast of Vietnam), Alaska, South America, and so on. Many of these places are "developing economies" that are locked in a mortal struggle for control of their resources with the E.U., the U.S., and big oil. The developed world has extraction and refinement technologies; the developing world has the raw material.

The result is an over-abundance of politics that keeps the price of oil volatile. While prices are high now, they may be low again in the near future. Such price instability discourages long-term development and growth in the world-wide energy industry.

Unfortunately, the Clinton administration seems to be only dimly aware of these issues.
Secretary of Energy Richardson has to be the Gomer Pyle of the world oil trade. With leadership of this caliber, it is no wonder Americans are flabbergasted at the bouncing price of petroleum products.

[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited April 05, 2000).]
 
Yes - In General EVs completely SUCK and I will not likely get one... for a vehicle that is.
But for a toy they are interesting.
I am building a new Ultralight and the idea of an electric powered unit is compeling me.
Silent thrust is a cool thing if you can get it. Problem is that batteries weigh a great deal. Balancing that with greater wingspan means the need for more thrust - inturn means more juice - more batteries... etc.

I can make it work but I would have to lose 75 pounds... Not workable at this point in time.
 
Not fifty miles from where I live some people tried to set up
a plant to make gas-ahol (spelling?) Sounds like gas-a-haul.
Almost like a big still, and cleaner burning. Made mostly of corn
grown right here in the US. Oil company's put the pressure on.
It didn’t go over very well.
The reason was it cost too much.

- - -$1.50 - - - a gallon.

Times change.
 
Christopher.....you saved me a lot of typing, I agree with all your points.

I would add that the alcohol addicts and propane proponants seem to neglect the little problem that even though the fuel cost per unit may be on a par with gasoline, the vehicle uses over twice as many units of the alternate fuel to do the same job. And the fact that alcohol is very hygroscopic is often ignored, to the detriment of darn near every componant in the fuel system from tank to piston.

As an interim answer to the fuel cost situation, my 30,000 dollar monster van is driven only when actually needed, and my 400 dollar 81 VW diesel wabbit is used for people hauling. It cruises with the traffic, hauls target frames and people while getting over 40 mpg. Also it is not overly sensitive to variable cross wind situations, trucks etc.



------------------
Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev!." We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."
 
While I'm no chemical engineer, I'm very close to the oil industry, as 3 of my good friends are chemical engineers (employed by various American and Canadian companies), and our family makes a good living off of the natural gas wells that dot our landscape here in Texas (BY GOD!!!). The problem isn't a shortage of crude oil, or any other resource. The problem isn't that Saddam Hussein put a plug in it. As a matter of fact, it is actually contrary. Hussein wants to dump as much oil as he can to rebuild what was once a pretty decent country (oh-and uh rebuild his weapons of mass destruction). One HUGE reason for the low cost we experienced last year was that Russia was dumping oil. Lots of it. They need currency, and so they sell what they got. If anything, 80% of the world's oil supply is completely untapped, and with today's technology, untappable. Technology is changing though. Almost 50% of the gas you put into your car today would have been untappable just 5 years ago. The Russians have enormous pools of oil that they aren't sure of how to get out of the ground. We're helping them with it, and it wont be long before that resource is on-line. Alaska, Canada, Wyoming, indeed, most of the western states have much of that untapped resource too. Texas is floating on oil, but again, due to the envirowarriors, it is too expensive (politically and financially) to use most of the western states because the Federal Government still owns most of the land. Texas oil is too expensive to get out of the ground until the price per barrel hits $25.00.
Hydrogen and other fuels are plentiful and cheap. Whenever hydrocarbons (gasoline, propane, CNG, ect...) are manufactured, hydrogen is the by-product. Most of it is burned off instead of bottled. Hydrogen is one of the most common elements on the earth. The problem with it is that it is expensive to put to practical use. A big bottle of hydrogen won't last your average car long, and it is dangerous to have a compressed explosive gas on board a vehicle in a car crash. I have driven many thousands of miles on a propane vehicle though, and while the milage wasn't great, it still was cheaper overall than gasoline. The only big difference was if we towed somthing, or put a big load on the vehicle, the performance was anemic. It also costs about 1500 bucks to convert your vehicle to burn propane, so you'd better use it a lot! Propane is better for the engine as it is a cleaner gas leaving very little deposits in your combustion chamber, or exhaust.
Our number one problem with the cost of fuel is a political failure, not a shortage of fuel. If we had any political clout whatsoever in the middle east, we wouldn't be having this problem, but most the Arab countries don't trust us because we've lied almost as a matter of policy to them. It doesn't matter if it was Republican or Democrat, the Arabs have been lied to so much that no guarantee of ours is worth a bucket of warm piss. Remember the little revolution we encouraged in southern Iraq during the Gulf War? What did we do to those people after they started shooting their own? We abandoned them, and they were slaughtered wholesale, many times in front of U.S. Troops . I know, I was there. The middle east is a close knit group of countries unlike Europe or anywhere else. Most share a common language, and almost all Arabs have close family ties to other countries. There's no way we can get squat out of them.
On the homefront, we've allowed the environmental weirdo's to close down pipelines (without evidence of spills), Off-shore oil rigs (without evidence of spills), and ban oil and mineral exploration on public land ( that WE THE PEOPLE own ). Fact is that you'd be hard pressed to find where any contamination has occured domestically using our own resources. But it sure made the lefties feel good. If you recall, it seems to be our love affair with importing gas that causes our environment the most problems. Every spill that I can recall in my lifetime has been a Tanker spill, that was bringing oil in (save the Exxon Valdez which was shipping Alaska oil out). If you want to solve this problem, then you're going to have to get the government lands back into private hands (or at least a partnership), and you're going to have to put restraint on the communists and socialists of our nation.


CRUDE OIL SHORTAGE:
afety in spite of what the envirowarriors say.
 
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