2 part questions on 38 / 357

C

countryboywithgun

New member
to start.. if there is a link i missed feel free to link to me. thanks


first is there a big differents in power or range in 38 +P vs 357 or even a regular 38

second ... if i have a gun that shoots 357 can i put a +P load in it or does it have to say +P

(i have a 92 carbine.. i know not a hand gun but a 357 revolver will be next purchase)
 
Yes, there is a significant difference going from .38 or .38+p to .357 magnum. You'll notice a difference in blast and recoil. Range will depend on the load, so check the ballistics charts.

Yes, if it's a .357 magnum revolver, you can shoot .38+p's in it without any concern at all. You can also shoot 38's or 38+p's in your rifle, but you may or may not have trouble feeding them through the tubular magazine.

Daryl
 
Right, some leverguns are sensitive about the overall length of the round. Too short and it'll feed funky. Not always though, a lot of people have success feeding 38s in a 357 lever and the '92 is a good design.

The power range is...extreme. Low-end 38Spl loads might have as little as 175ft/lbs of energy. Most 38+P stuff runs about 250ft/lbs energy from a 2" to 3" barrel. 357Mag horsepower starts around 500ft/lbs (less with some low-recoil specialty loads) and can run as high as 800ft/lbs energy from a 4" barrel.
 
That's a good question.

To be a little more explicit and limited in scope,

A revolver chambered for 38 Special and not marked for +p can safely use 38 Specials

A revolver chambered for 38 Special and marked for +p can safely use 38 specials and 38 special +p

A revolver chambered for 38 Special and marked for +p can safely use 38 specials and 38 special +p and .357 magnum.

It is primarily a matter of the ability of the chamber to contain the pressure. .357 Mag can go up to 40,000 psi. 38 Special tops out aroun 16,000 psi. 38+p is somewhere in the middle (the loading manual I keep next to the computer does not specify +p load data)

For safety's sake (and to allow a little more room for powder and expansion) the .357 cartridge is a little longer than 38 specials. Thus, a gun chambered for 38 specials SHOULD NOT (in theory) even be able to chamber and close on a .357 magnum cartridge. It's not supposed to fit.

There is a pretty good article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum
or if the link does not work very well, paste this into your browser
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum

or just go to Google.com and search on ".357 Magnum" and "38 Special"

Aside from what SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) specifies for standards, there is the consideration of the strength of the gun. There are 357 Magnum revolvers out there in which it is OK to shoot full-power 38+p and .357 Magnum loads, but after a time, the guns will show the strain of such exercise. (Charter Arms, snub-nose, Smith & Wesson lightweight .357s or Taurus lightweights) No detriment to the guns, they have just traded a bit of durability to gain small size, concealability and light weight. It's a reasonable trade if you need the small package. Then, more robust guns, like the S&W N-frame (Models 27 and 28) and the Ruger .357 Redhawk, Blackhawk and GP-100 can take full-power 357s for a lot longer.

All that long paragraph means is that a small, lightweight .357 (or 38+p) gun should not be fed lots and lots of .357s all the time, even though it can take the pressure. It will get looser sooner than a heavier gun will.

All the same principles apply to a long gun, too, but feeding issues become an additional consideration as Jim and Daryl mentioned.

Good luck shopping for your revolver.

Lost Sheep
 
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You just let me realize why I keep the 5 boxes of 357 in 125gr

I've had for a while. I absolutely hate shooting this stuff out of a handgun...just way too much recoil for me. 158 gr is much easier. And 38 of any type is fun.

But my lever action 92 in 357 is perfect for that 125 gr stuff!
 
38+P

"A revolver chambered for 38 Special and marked for +p can safely use 38 specials and 38 special +p and .357 magnum."

I assume that this is just a misprint because it is most certainly not the case. With any luck you wouldn't be able to get a .357 magnum into a gun marked 38 special +p, but in the event that you did (through the use of a hammer or otherwise) good things would not happen. Putting a 357 in a 38 would almost certainly destroy the gun and possibly cause damage to the shooter. The case would go well into the throat of the cylinder. When the round was fired the brass wouldn't have any room to give to release the bullet. The pressure would go through the roof. In this case the roof would be the top of the cylinder and frame of the revolver or the chamber of the rifle.
 
A revolver chambered for .357 magnum can safely use 38 specials and 38 special +p and .357 magnum.
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you. :) I do stuff like that all the time when using cut and paste to avoid retyping

You can also add that a revolver chambered for .357 Maximum can safely use 38spl, 38spl +p, .357mag, and .357max.
 
Once

I shot some 38 Special in my 357 once. After I finally got the carbon ring cleaned out of the cylinders I never did that again.

In real world use I expect to use the 357 as a 357 so I practice with 357.
 
I shot some 38 Special in my 357 once. After I finally got the carbon ring cleaned out of the cylinders I never did that again.
Click to expand...

I've been using +P loads of Bullseye with a 158gr LSWC and magnum cases for just that reason. Someone told me ya shouldn't do that but both my revolvers seemed to like the load just fine. Good accuracy, mild recoil, no carbon ring.;)
 
There is, of course, a huge difference in power between the hottest .357 rounds and some of the softer shooting .38s. A 158 gr. magnum round will zip away from a handgun at 1200 fps+ whereas a .38 special round of equivalent weight and not +p will mosey along at 3/5 - 2/3 of the speed of the .357. The formula of e (energy) = mass (bullet weight) x c (velocity expressed in centimeters per second) squared will tell you instantly that the energy of the magnum round is several times that of the .38.

Aside from velocity and force at impact the hotter magnum rounds feel very differently from .38s when you fire them. Unlike some of you, but like many others, I tend to fire both magnums and .38s from some of my .357s. For example, I use my 6" 686 as a target gun and I often shoot .38s with it. A typical 158 gr. non +P round fired from that gun produces minimal recoil. However, put a 125 gr. .357 round through it and it instantly becomes a flame belching monster.

One other note. I agree, firing .38s from a .357 can cause carbon rings to build up in the chambers and that's a bad thing if you want also to shoot .357s from the same gun. But, there's an easy solution -- just clean the gun after you shoot it. I thoroughly brush out the chambers after each range session and there is no visible carbon buildup in any of my .357s.
 
Do you think we should be doing this?

Many years ago I shot metallic silhuette. Some guys had Ruger single actions in .45 Colt (the .454 Casull was either not yet out or just not in my area) and lots of guys handloaded firewall loads to create the mythical ".45 Magnum."

I found out several years later in a gunshop that one of the most common reapirs at Ruger was refurbishing .45 Colt single actions.

I always figured it would be safer and cheaper (in the long run) to just buy the revolver you wanted instead of misusing the one you had.

Over the past few days I found several boxes of the StarFire +P load, the type in the solid black box loaded with the bullet of a straight sided ogive. Experience has taught me over time that this load is really closer to a Treasury Load.

If I owned a 442 or a 642, and needed or wanted to shoot that specific load, wouldn't it be a better idea to just buy a 640 or the Ruger SP101?
 
Always check the owner/operator manual. It will tell you what can be shot from a particular gun. Some guns will not tolerate +P or +P+ ammo.
 
I grew up shooting a standard S&W 38. The ammo I shot was reloads my father had a friend make for him. He called them 'minimum magnum loads' all I know ballistically about them was they would go through 5 1" thick pine boards. The old S&W held up pretty good with them.
 
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