2 Antique Handguns - Help ID!

The first one has a maker's mark in 2 different places as you can see in the photos (click to enlarge in the photos) ! :)
 
I think the first one is a pinfire breechloader. Condition is poor, value low.

The second one is a percussion muzzleloader of the style known in South America as a Garrucha, but widely distributed elsewhere. Common and of low value.
 
My late father had a gun very similar to the first. Pop-out triggers, Belgian proof marks, crude metallurgy.
 
I think they are both Garruchas, which were made in different systems as time went on. Still the same idea; two-shot pistols made for the natives who were forbidden to own revolvers or auto pistols. Some were made in Belgium and Spain, but most in Brazil, which was the major market.

The value is pretty much in the novelty class, maybe $40 or so. I don't recommend attempting to fire either gun, even if pinfire ammo were available.

Jim
 
I believe both are of South American origin. Very low cost when new, and time has not been gentle with them. Made for use by the poor farmers and merchants' who could not afford anything else but yet need something for protection against the many ( and still that way ) bandit's who inhibited the country side. These guns are still being made ( and at one time imported by Rossi ) in .22 and other low pressure calibers.
 
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One also sees a ton of cheap pistols like this in France. Since they're classified as Category 8, they're widely available - just have to be 18. They turn up in flea markets, with examples like those shown in the 50 dollar range, better quality guns can get pricey quickly! Some samples can be found here: http://www.naturabuy.fr/Pistolets-Broches-cat-1067.html

Same basic principal though, inexpensive firearms for self defence.

As an interesting note, pinfire ammo is not that hard to find here. Either original (usually about a buck a round, sometimes a lot less) or in load-your-own form that works using reloadable brass with a striker pin that fires a blank primer to set off the charge. These are actually pretty cool, can be easily loaded for casual plinking, and bring your per shot cost down to about 25 cents or less. A neat way to keep the old guns shooting. I've shot a few of the cheap double-barrel pinfires like the one shown, and accuracy is terrible.
 
I hope I'm misreading your tone. I seem to recall saying that "better examples can get pricey quickly!"

Well... I could argue that the quality and condition do not appear to be in the
same realm. I could also argue that a "buy it now" option, like on many auction sites, is rarely a reflection of selling point except when the seller stumbles on an impulse buyer. Check the vintage surfboards on e-bay that are still there after a couple of years of constant appearances if you'd like a hint of this phenomenon.

The link was given simply to check out the availability and range of these types of pistols in France. Some neat stuff on there. I used to be amazed by the variety of pinfires around, some of them in the 12mm range... some of which I'd have hesitated to fire new and some that seem like quality guns.

Scroll a bit further and you'll find a wide range of prices. Spend some time walking around the brocantes and vide-greniers, and you'll find some nicely rusted pieces with chipped grips at around fifty. Or don't.
 
Those French prices are astonishing. €280 and €590 are $358 and $755, respectively. Quite a lot of money for guns that would not, I think, bring anywhere near that in the U.S.

Jim
 
Sorry if my tone sounded that bad, writting is always more difficult then talking :D It was just a matter of currency, dolars to euros :D sorry! and thanks for your help guys :)
 
No worries, of couse. Like I said, a long day on my end as well!

James, some of the prices are crazy indeed.

Others not so bad. It's pretty easy to pick a decent pinfire for 150 or so - I have no idea how that compares to the States at present. I used to see early pinfires showing up as "probably Confederate used" or some such thing, at really high prices, but I haven't checked in years.

There are some wild firearms floating around France. Most anything modern and C and R is regulated, but in the countryside after a couple of world wars, one stumbles of course upon some keepsakes and pick-ups that remain under the radar.

I always enjoy the forum, gentlemen, so thanks!
 
I have one identical to the first one you show - have had it probably close to 50 years. It's a French double barrel "pin-fire". Pull the hammer back and the trigger pops out (one for each hammer). Mine is stored away but if I remember right, it is about a 36-38 caliber or there abouts. These were inexpensive pistols at the time but the wood grips on mine is actually a very nice piece of French Walnut and very well made. An interesting "curio"!
 
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