1st Reloading Effort - Problems w .223

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KentM

New member
So I started out with some .223 for my AR15. Before I tried firing, I just tried cycling them through the rifle to make sure they would feed. Several failed to eject, and when the next shell tried to load it pushed up against the previous one and the bullet was pushed back into the casing.

1. Obviously a neck tension problem
2. But why were the others failing to eject?

They weren't "stuck" because when I removed the magazine they shook right out.

The weapon worked fine with another mag with factory rounds.

All carts fit well and loosely in both the Wilson and Hornady gauges. OALs 1.195 to 2.200 so none were near the max length.

I tried to measure the taper for the crimp, but keep getting varied results. Some .001 to .002, some even greater taper.

Bullets were seated with just a tad of cannelure showing.

Some had probably been trimmed, chamfered and deburred with the Lee Power Quick Trim and .223 die.

Used brass, various manufacturers, some military. Evergreen 55gr FMJ-BT bullets.
Casings were sized in an RCBS small-base full-length sizing die (not the X-die) and the bullets were seated with the RCBS seating die (obviously needs some adjustment).

So, several questions:
1. How to handle the neck sizing problem?
2. Assuming I am able to fix the crimping problem, what can I do with the remaining 40 or so that are already loaded. Can I re-crimp them as is, or do I need to unload them and start over?

3. Most important... what would have happened had I tried to fire while loaded with one where the bullet was pushed back into the casing?

Thanks for any help here.
 
Failure to eject or failure to extract? It sounds like extraction is the issue as I have a hard time imagining how the second round would hit the first hard enough to set a bullet back if the case had extracted any significant amount.


How about the reloads in the mag that worked with the factory rounds? "Shook right out" sounds like a serious magazine issue, or at least as I'm imagining things.
 
To clarify, I’m not sure of the difference between ejecting and extracting. When I pulled back the charging handle, the cartridge remained in the barrel.

I should have paused, but I didn’t. Second problem... when I released the handle and the next round tried to load it obviously jammed against the first round, which is when the bullet was pushed back into the case.

No magazine problem. I had to remove the mag to get out the second cartridge that was jammed, whereupon the first round was able to fall out by gravity indicating that the failure to extract wasn’t because it was stuck.
 
Is the bolt fully locking up? I'm thinking it might be the round isn't chambering properly so the extractor never gets a grip on the rim.
 
KentM said:
To clarify, I’m not sure of the difference between ejecting and extracting. When I pulled back the charging handle, the cartridge remained in the barrel.

I should have paused, but I didn’t. Second problem... when I released the handle and the next round tried to load it obviously jammed against the first round, which is when the bullet was pushed back into the case.

No magazine problem. I had to remove the mag to get out the second cartridge that was jammed, whereupon the first round was able to fall out by gravity indicating that the failure to extract wasn’t because it was stuck.
Click to expand...
You are describing a failure to extract, i.e. pull from the chamber.

DO NOT shoot the cases with the bullet pushed back into the case. The reduced combustion space can raise pressures drastically with very small differences. Pull the bullet, recover the powder, resize without the decapping pin in the size die. If the bullet shows deformation of the tip accuracy is likely problematic.

I'm not sure that you actually have a neck tension problem. The impact of a bolt may well have more than enough energy to push properly tensioned bullets back.

The extractor on the AR bolt is spring loaded and sort of "snaps" over the rim as the case seats in the chamber. If you ride the bold, hold the charging handle slowing it, forward you might not have enough forward energy to get that snap. Not pulling the charging handle back fully and releasing might have a similar issue.

If the case shoulder has been set back too far in reloading then the case might be getting a bit deep in the chamber and not providing the correct resistance to the bolt face for it to grab the rim, if not set back enough the the bolt may not be fully locking.


If your reloaded cases have a thicker, or deformed in some fashion, rim than the other factory load that's another possible cause of the extractor not engaging properly.
It isn't clear if you attempted to load other rounds and had the failure to extract. It may have just been that one round with some deformation of the rim.

Extractor springs, weak or too strong, rough face or debris in the bolt extractor groove may cause inconsistent extractor engagement.
 
KentM said:
So I started out with some .223 for my AR15. Before I tried firing, I just tried cycling them through the rifle to make sure they would feed. Several failed to eject, and when the next shell tried to load it pushed up against the previous one and the bullet was pushed back into the casing.

1. Obviously a neck tension problem
2. But why were the others failing to eject?

They weren't "stuck" because when I removed the magazine they shook right out.

The weapon worked fine with another mag with factory rounds.

All carts fit well and loosely in both the Wilson and Hornady gauges. OALs 1.195 to 2.200 so none were near the max length.

I tried to measure the taper for the crimp, but keep getting varied results. Some .001 to .002, some even greater taper.

Bullets were seated with just a tad of cannelure showing.

Some had probably been trimmed, chamfered and deburred with the Lee Power Quick Trim and .223 die.

Used brass, various manufacturers, some military. Evergreen 55gr FMJ-BT bullets.
Casings were sized in an RCBS small-base full-length sizing die (not the X-die) and the bullets were seated with the RCBS seating die (obviously needs some adjustment).

So, several questions:
1. How to handle the neck sizing problem?
2. Assuming I am able to fix the crimping problem, what can I do with the remaining 40 or so that are already loaded. Can I re-crimp them as is, or do I need to unload them and start over?

3. Most important... what would have happened had I tried to fire while loaded with one where the bullet was pushed back into the casing?

Thanks for any help here.
Click to expand...

1, it would not be neck sizing, but neck tension and or crimp. Neck tension and crimp are designed to keep the bullet in place in the magazine and when loading, not when having the bolt pound on it like a hammer and anvil. most likely any round would have done that.

2, assuming they have not had the bullets pushed back in the casing they are fine to shoot.

3, it could very well go boom in bad way, dont do it. you need to get a bullet puller, or, depending on your press, take the die out, grab it with pliers from the side, and pull the lever to yank it out.

I'm guessing the problem is you are short stroking your rifle. For testing rounds i would insert the mag on a closed bolt, pull it back, let it go completely slamming forward. then lock the bolt open and hit the bolt release. this will ensure it feeds from an open bolt bolt during reloads, or closed bolt for tactical reloads or during storage. If you want to cycle rounds through pull the handle back, let it go, don't baby it.

If your using RCBS small base full length dies I would not worry about feeding. I used regular lee dies for a long time without a problem without a single hitch. never hurts to double check though.

On a side note, just got the small base x-dies. you can regular FL size with them, prior to using the x-feature. I am soooooo looking forward to not trimming my brass!!!!!!!!! I did not realize you could regular FL size with it or I would have bought it a long time ago.
 
Thank you all for your answers, and I think the problem was short stroking. I never tried firing any of the rounds in the magazine when I saw the rounds with the bullets backed up into the casing.

So I went back and with the rest of the batch I checked the bullets were firmly seated and fired them, and they worked fine. So now I know.

Several of you opined that the bullets that backed up had probably been seated tight enough for normal activity. I pulled several of the remainders of that batch in an inertial puller, and based. on the effort I had to use, I tend to think they were, in fact, seated tightly enough.
 
The way to tell is to let the bolt slam home from being locked in full counterbattery, and then manually extract the unfired round to look for signs of setback occurring as the bullet was pushed up the feed ramp. If there are none, you are good to go in that gun.
 
The crimp test I do is measure cbto (case base to ogive) on a loaded round. Feed it 5 times from the magazine. Recheck that measurement...I think I allow 0.010” max shortening, but I forget without my notes.
 
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