1k Yard .300 win mag bullet

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So I have my Shilen Select Match grade 28" countour S8 (1" at muzzle) barrel on the way.. Shipped today.

I turned my old savage 110 .300 wm into a match rifle with a new chassis, trigger, bolt face, firing pin, scope, bottom metal and other parts...The barrel is the final piece.

So now it's time to try bullets. When it was a hunting rifle, I loaded 180 gr Accubonds with 79 gr H1000 for about 3050 fps in a 24" sporter barrel.

But for a 28" 1k Yard rifle, I'm wondering what yall shoot. First, the round must feed from the magazine, I will be using it for field precision rifle which doesn't allow single shot...That may rule out some of the berger vld's Which are long and jump sensitive.

I was thinking 220 gr smk's? Maybe the Nosler match bullets or Hornady ELD? Also, for powder I am familiar with both retumbo in my .338 LM and H1000 in my old .300 wm so I will try both of those since I have some .
already.

But as for bullets to develop a load with I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,
 
I am not a Match Shooter or expert at long range or anything, but I have been VERY impressed with the Nosler ABLR 210 in my 300 WSM.

In fact, I have found the 190g and the 175/7mm to be really accurate as well.
 
I have a Savage model 112 .300 win mag. I have mainly used it for hunting but have load the will gong steel at 800 yards. 165 nosler accubond, 71 gr IMR4350 with 3230 fps. But it is a single shot so my coal is 3.512.
 
For 1k target shooting with a 300 win mag, you can get away with any match grade bullet from 155 to 220 grain with good results.

The 300 Win Mag can even launch those old 168gr SMKs fast enough that they are still supersonic at 1K.

But, if you want an actual suggestion, look to the 175 and 190gr Nosler Custom Comp bullets over IMR7828 SSC powder with Fed 215M primers . If you don't have IMR7828 then you can work up really temp stable rounds with H4350, IMR4350, or H4831 or IMR4831.

If you want to shoot beyond 1k, then a 220gr match bullet with H1000 is probably the most optimal combination of bullet and powder.

Jimro
 
Knew a guy who regularly won 1,000 yard matches with a custom built .300 Mag. He used nothing but 190 grain match bullets. Hornady's, I think.
 
Nosler custom comp bullets are tangent ogive and are less finicky about how much jump there is. I'd try to find some norma or Lapua brass with large case capacities and use a powder that fills them up as much as possible to take advantage of the long barrel. The ablr's are usually in short supply and are specifically designed for hunting so I wouldn't let their high bc tempt you into shooting steel with them.

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The nosler custom comps and smk's are an option.
My barrel is a 1:10 twist. According to the 2 bullet stabilizer calculators online and the one I made in Excel, a 1:10 .300 win mag barrel 28" long will easily stabilize 220 grain SMK'S, 225 gr nosler BTHP, 215 Grain Berger's among others.

However, I was thinking about trying the new Hornady 225 or 212 gr ELD's. The stabilization calculators say that , given thier lengths of 1.70" and 1.60" respectively, they are on the border of comfortably stable. But, I called Hornady and they said they tested the bullet in a 1:10 twist barrel so it should be fine.

I ask because the G1 BC is .777 on the 225 GR eld and .663 on the 212 gr. There is also a 220 gr but the BC is lower than the 212 gr bullet?

If I can get up near 2950-3000 fps with a BC that high I would be in business. And it should feed from the mag. But it is a long bullet.
 
Bullet stability factor affects the bc. Bryan litz was kind enough to share info about the relationship between stability factor and bc after testing our ablr's. The lower the stability factor the lower the actual bc you will get.
From what I know the eld's are a secant ogive like the berger match bullets and in my experience with them they didn't like more than a .020 jump. The berger hybrids are a middle ground between secant and tangent, hence the destination hybrid, and are suppose to be less picky about seating depth and be more stable after buffering to sub.

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Mississippi, The standard Berger VLD about half the bullet length is from the ogive to tip of bullet. Berger 210gr VLD bullet length is 1.459" long and bearing surface is .729.

This is post of mine from LR hunting site from last Feb.

Re: ELD-X bullets ( Jump or No Jump to the lands?).
I've been shooting 200gr ELD-X in a 30-338mag (338mag neck to 30cal) ,70.5gr/H-4831sc @ 2969 with 26" Lilja barrel. I'm .040" off the lands and 3 shot groups just little under 1/2" @ 100yds. Now that our weather getting better I'll be getting to range more often and what little I've done past 100yds has show promise.I've also got some 212gr.

I had mine throated little longer and I'll little over 3.500". My bullet is hunting and that 200gr is 1.530" and 212gr is 1.605".

Berger 230gr Hybrid target bullet nose length is .905" and bearing surface .735". 300mag case is 2.620" long from ogive forward .905" your OAL is 3.510". The Berger 210gr VLD nose length is .729" and bearing surface is .730".

I try and set mine so case mouth about mid pt on bearing surface and not have too much base of bullet in case body. I try send gunsmith some dummy rds.

Good luck
 
Thanks nosler guy and roper.

If it wasn't for my magazine feeding restriction, I wouldn't be so nervous about long berger and the new Hornady bullets....If they wanted to be jammed into the lands then I would do it.

But in Field Precision rifle and F-Class XTR, they have to feed from the mag. (I also shoot Regular F class but with a different rifle). I'm running AICS mags which I think allows for a 3.630-3.640.
the COAL on the ELD's from Hornady are 3.500 for the 212 ELD and 3.340 for the 220 grain. ( Weird that the 220 is shorter than the 212 Grain.

In any case, that may not be enough room
..Then again it might.

But that's why I thought about using Scenars, Smk's, Nosler custom comps, or Hornady BTHP.. Because they are not very jump sensitive AND they are shorter.
 
So I learned something new today....That when you are using a stability calculator, you essentially ignore the length of the ballistic polymer tip when determining stability.

Of course the polymer tip portion does matter...Just not that much. I used the JBM bullet calculator for stability and it has a spot where you put in the length of the ballistic tip. If you put in the length of the tip, the stability rating for the 225 Hornady ELD 225 gr at 2850 fps is 1.561. if u use the Berger calculator and subtract the polymer tip from the OAL of the Hornady ELD you get the same answer....

All this basically means that the Hornady ELD bullets will stabilize in a 1:10 twist at .300 WM velocities up to 225 graines.

....So I think I will give them a try. The question is now: do I try the 212, or the 225? I think the 220 isn't the best choice since it has a lower BC than the 212 gr. But the 225 has a .777 G1 BC!!!
 
Mississippi,

Remember that BC is just a number that has almost no relation to accuracy. Also once you get to match bullets, the G1 BC is always very impressive, but it isn't a static number, it changes with velocity. Look at the G7 BC for a better comparison between match bullets.

What does have a relationship to accuracy is bullet balance and how consistent the BC is between bullets of the same lot. Any of the match bullets currently on the market are going to be well balanced, but the trend of top shooters to "tip" their bullets to uniform the BC inside the lot is telling. When top shooters would rather have slightly lower BC that is more consistent, it's a a good indicator that having the highest BC bullet isn't always the key to the most accuracy.

Also, if you want to get a 220 or heavier bullet to 2850 in a 300 Win Mag, you are going to bust SAAMI specs on pressure, the same as the Navy did when they spec'd the Mk248 Mod1 load. This is pretty meaningless when you are the DOD and use your brass exactly once, but you may find you have reduced brass life. I'm pretty sure that H1000 is about the only powder out there that will get there safely with the accuracy you want.

And I will put this up as food for thought. A Berger 168 Target Hybrid at 3,300 fps versus a Berger 220 20X bullet at 2850 fps has 0.2 MOA more windage adjustment, but 0.129 seconds less flight time to 1k. I point this out because with a 300 Win Mag, and a known range, you have to consider whether the conditions will change enough in an eighth of a second to make the lighter bullet starting and finishing faster the better choice for your shooting needs. In comparison a Nosler 175 CC at 3,200 fps has essentially the same time of flight as the Berger 220 20X bullet at 2850 with 1.2 moa difference on wind call.

So I hope that explains my original advice on why you have a very broad range of choices when it comes to match bullets for the 300 Win Mag when you limit the target range to 1k, the performance envelope lets the speed of the lighter bullets make up for the BC advantage of the heavier bullets to some extent. Heck, a 155gr Sierra Tipped MK bullet at 3,400 fps hangs right there with the Berger 168 Target Hybrid load I mentioned earlier. These velocity numbers are just a guess as to what I think you could safely get to with your 28" barrel based on published max loads from a 24" barrel, so reality may differ quite a bit either way.

But I hope this has been food for thought.

Jimro
 
Jimro

You make some good points. The 1k Yard constraint is because that is currently the maximum distance I will likely shoot this gun in a meaningful event. Which was your point to some extent I think.....That the super High BC .30 cal bullets may not be as consistent AND that the advantages of a super high BC may not matter at 1k yards or less. Also that there is an advantage to reaching the target sooner (so lighter faster) and anything that bullet may do beyond 1k is pointless for my application.

I do in fact agree with much of what you said. And it is making me consider going more the 190 gr rout.

One question I have though...Why doest anyone suggest Scenars? They are my go-to .338 LM bullet and very very consistent. I have never tried them in .30 cal but I would think they would be consistent there too.
 
Mississippi,

People don't suggest Scenars because they are generally more expensive than American made 30 cal match bullets. They are very good bullets, but the additional expense is really only justifiable for most shooters in the 0.311 bore for Mosins or Enfields, or in .338 bore for Lapua/Norma magnums. Nosler Custom Comp bullets have been my go to recommendation in 30 cal and 6.5mm because I can shoot more of them for the same money, and I've been really impressed with how consistently they perform. Once you get down to 223, I think that the Hornady Amax bullets are the cats meow on price/performance (although I know a LOT of shooters who absolutely love the 178 and 208gr Amax bullets in 30 cal).

And honestly, once you are beyond 300 yards with any rifle, the skill of the shooter matters more than which match bullet. The bullet that has a 0.05 MOA smaller group at 100 doesn't give you any advantage in accuracy once the wind starts kicking up, especially at distance.

Jimro
 
People don't suggest Scenars because they are generally more expensive than American made 30 cal match bullets
Click to expand...

Ahh good point. In my .338 LM, Sierra, Berger, Lapua etc are all pretty much $1 each (though sometimes I find a bulk special). But Scenars are about 50% more expensive than SMK'S, or 75% more than nosler custom comps. Must be some kind of economies of scale plus a flat rate import tarrif thing because Lapua .223 is expensive too (relatively). But their .338 bullets are on par with 300 Grain SMK'S price wise.
I digress....It appears for the money and for my application I will try 190gr Nosler Custom comps, 210gr and 200 gr SMK'S, 208 Hornady ELD, My goal is the most accurate 3000 fps I can get out of my 28" Shilen Select Match barrel.

I do wish however that I could buy a bullet variety pack AND I wish Lapua made .300 wm brass.
 
Along the lines of my last post... Which brass do y'all find most consistent in .300 win mag?

The available brands easy to get a hold of are:

Remmington
Winchester
Norma
Nosler
Hornady

I have extensive experience with RP, Win, and Hornady brass. When my .300 wm was a hunting rifle I used once fired RP brass given to me (200 pieces). They lasted 5 reloads before the necks split (no annealing). They were plenty good enough for hunting or hitting 500 yard steel's. But for match brass..?

I wish they made Lapua...I do not like Hornady brass (too soft). So I guess what I'm asking...Is Norma or Nosler worth the money? Or is it better to buy a bunch of RP or Winchester and sort it?
 
Jimro said:
Remember that BC is just a number that has almost no relation to accuracy.
Click to expand...
True, but at 1000 yards, The argument could be made that a higher BC load is more important that pure accuracy, provided the accuracy is acceptable.

If I had the choice between a 3/4 MOA load shooting a ~.7 BC bullet or a 1/2 MOA load shooting a ~.5 BC, I will take the less accurate every time.


Mississippi said:
Also that there is an advantage to reaching the target sooner (so lighter faster)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't make that assumption. It may be the case for your particular load, but definitely run some numbers and find out for sure. BC effects velocity retention as well as wind resistance, and the difference in flight time to the target is probably negligible.

I had the same thought a while back, and ran the numbers for my LR rig, comparing the .264 140 AMAX and the 95 VMAX:

For my rifle at my home range:

6.5-06,
.264 140AMAX @ 2818 FPS, 4400ft alt, BC .550

Velocity @ 300 2394fps 1.5MOA of drift per 10mph of Full Value wind, .34 sec flight time
Velocity @ 500 2130fps 2.5MOA/10mph F/V wind .61 sec flight time
Velocity @ 1000 1551fps 6.3MOA/10mph F/V wind 1.43 sec flight time
Subsonic @ 1575 yards

.264 95gr VMAX @ 3400FPS 4400ft alt, BC .365

Velocity @ 300 2692fps 1.9MOA/10mph F/V wind .29sec flight time
Velocity @ 500 2273fps 3.4MOA/10mph F/V wind .54sec flight time
Velocity @ 1000 1412fps 8.4MOA/10mph F/V wind, 1.38sec flight time
Subsonic @ 1300 yards

The 140 load is my actual numbers for my long range rig. I have found them to be remarkably(surprisingly?) accurate.

The flight time difference to a 500 yard target is a whopping .07 of a second, and to 1000 is even less, .05 sec, as the 140 grain bullet is going faster at that point. The velocity is equal at about 725 yards. From that point on, the 140 grain bullet, that started 600 FPS slower, is traveling faster.

If the shorter flight time theory is correct, the lighter faster bullet should have less wind when it is traveling faster, but even then it comes up short, with about 26% more wind at 300 yards, and 36% more windage at 500, even though it is still traveling as much as 300 FPS faster.

In fact, if you set the table steps to 25 yards, you will see the lighter bullet has more windage from as close as 50 yards.

Also keep in mind though, a higher BC bullet will not make you a better long range shooter, or help you better read the wind. What it will do is lessen the consequences caused by reading the wind (and compensating with hold or a sight adjustment) wrong. The higher the BC, the more forgiving when you mess up your wind calls.

For example, shooting at 500 yards, when you call the wind is 60º at 8mph, but it is really 90º at 12, how bad do you miss? Run some numbers with the loads you are planning on using and compare them, apples to apples in a given condition and range.
 
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