1942 Lee Enfield no.4 mk1 (SHORT HAND GUARD?)

B

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Hope I placed this is the right forum - please move if I haven't (TY)

I recently bought a 1942 Lee Enflield no.4 mk1 - I have a nice collection of Russian WW2 weapons, now moving on to other allies of the war.

I gather from the ENGLAND stamp and the AB followed by a numerical 1XXXX that it was but in England. There are no US or Canadian markings.

MY question though is one that bothers me: In all photos of that year's rifles do I see a shortened hand guard - 12 inches of barrel are exposed, leading to the sight protectors and bayonet.

I see LE that look like this, but have not seen a no4 mk1. All of those have wood nearly to the end of the muzzle. I just am not sure when this change, or even why this change was done (I do know different methods were tried to reduce weight) and I know this rifle is definitely lighter than one with a full wood hand guard - and I'll add, that I don't believe anything on this rifle was switched out, at least 70 years. Anyone have info on this?

I guess my focus is on aesthetics - I had in mind the very classic boxy look of the Lee Enfield that I see in every movie. I'm sure I could find full rails, but I believe this is how the rifle was made, so as a collector, I want to keep it this way.

Any info would greatly be appreciated.

John
 
The 'ENGLAND' stamp is an export mark required by the U.S. Brits require the 'BNP' stamps.
Shouldn't be any American markings unless it was made by Savage. Those will have 'S' stamps and/or the 'U.S. Property' stamp on the receiver and parts.
Where that rifle was made should be on the butt socket. However, the S/N indicates ROF(Royal Ordnance Factory)Maltby. They used a '1' as the first number of the S/N. All the Brit factories used the same letter prefixes starting with 'A' then repeating using 'AB'.
Any rifle with 12 inches of barrel are exposed, leading to the sight protectors and bayonet is either a No. 5 Mk I(Jungle Carbine that'll have an integral flash hider with an 18.8" barrel too.) or a sporterised rifle. Your's is the latter.
Neither has anything to do with the year of manufacture. Especially as there was no such thing as a No. 5 Rifle in 1942. However, there have been lots of fake No. 5's made out of No. 4 receivers(notably by Gibb's Rifle Co.).
http://www.chuckhawks.com/jungle_carbine.htm
And check the headspace before you shoot it. You should slug the barrel too. Lee-Enfields can have a barrel ID of .311" to .315" and be considered OK. Over .315" the barrel is shot out. Issue is the available factory ammo uses .311" or .312" bullets. Montana Bullets makes up to .315" cast bullets for reasonable money though.
 
Thanks guys. I was waiting for the word sporterizing to come up - that was my thought. This LE is surely a no.4 mk1, I have seen the large S that looks like a digital number 5 before in person - and this does not have that. All seems to fit with "T"'s info.

It has a brass butt plate, no markings (inside or out) I gave the plate a good cleaning and the tool door works fine! Fro the breech to muzzle I'm measuring almost 22inchs. Mind you, I haven't stripped the furniture off, so it is a guesstimate - mind you the bayonet is on (got to spray that a bit to get off) and there is NO rusting, blueing and action all are fine.

I'm heading for Gunbroker to see if I can find full woodwork - I know people strip everything down for parts when they can't sell it as is. The junkyard mentality is often a treasure trove of goodies.

Thanks for the replies, I'm on my way to having a period looking piece. I can see the attraction of this being a great hunting gun and how a pound or two of wood hanging off the front could get heavy. But hunting here in New Jersey is a shotgun and .22 only thing - maybe not 30, 40, 50 years ago when this may have made it here: I bought this from a coworker, who is about 60 years old and he always referred it to his Dad's gun.

Any other comments?
 
"The 'ENGLAND' stamp is an export mark required by the U.S..."

More accurately, it is an IMPORT stamp, required for guns being imported into the U.S. It is the "country of origin" (COO) required on all imported goods and was used on firearms up to 1968, when the U.S. law was changed to require the caliber and importer instead of the COO on firearms.

Some writers claim that the import stamps were applied overseas, and that might be true, but I know that most were applied in the U.S., under bond. (Major importers of any goods have what are called "bonded warehouses" where they store goods under bond; such goods are physically on US soil, but technically have not been imported so no import duty is paid on them until they are legally "imported" at which point the duty becomes payable. This allows a company to store goods without paying duty and also to ship goods back out of the country from its warehouse without paying U.S. duties.)

Jim
 
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