1917 Victory- .38 S&W or .38 Special?

R

ronin308

New member
I thought the Smith and Wesson Victory model was .38 Spec. But I was looking at SOG's website and they list that its chambered in .38 S&W, is this a misprint? Or am I incorrect? If it can take .38 Spec. this will be my first DA revolver I think. Thanks!

Dan

Edited to add website addy- http://www.southernohiogun.com/products.html
 
Sold in both calibers

The Brits and Aussies got them in .38 S&W, aka .38/200, while the US got them in .38 S&W Special chambering. Ammo is available for the shorter and less powerful .38 S&W, but it's a lot less fuss to go ahead and get a Victory Model in .38 S&W Special. Whichever Victory Model you get, make certain to have a qualified gunsmith check it over really well for timing and lockup. One I had, with Broad Arrow proof marks, was downright dangerous. It ended up becoming rebuilt into this monstrosity:

http://www.geocities.com/gew98.geo/ppcpropointleftplonk2.jpg
 
There's no such thing as a 1917 Victory Model.

The 1917 was produced during World War I, is built on the N-frame, and is chambered in .45 ACP.

Both S&W and Colt (based on the New Service frame), manufactured these revolvers for the gov't.

The Victory Model, however, was a WW II era gun.

Purists will say that the Victory model was really only chambered in .38 Special, while the proper nomenclature for the ones chambered in .38 S&W for the British & Commonwealth forces is the .38/200 British Service Revolver.

Others will say that ONLY those revolvers with V serial number prefixes are true Victory models.

Generally, I lump ANY of the handguns made for British, Commonwealth, or American military service by S&W between 1939 and 1945 as Victory Models. It's easier that way.
 
Wow. That product description absolutely bytes!

It's incorrect on its face, and you can't tell which revolver you're going to get.
 
Ronin, might be a good idea to call them and ask what it is that they are selling. Ask pointed questions.

Sam
 
Hi, guys,

It may be easier to sort of lump all those together, but the term "Victory" Model was actually used only by S&W (not Colt) and only applied to M&P's with the "V" serial number prefix.

The gun was given that name by S&W, not by the Government, and only when the M&P serials went to 999999 million. Then, forced to a new series, they adopted the name "Victory" model (great PR) and began a new number series with V1. The name was not marked on the guns (other than the "V" serial prefix) and seems to have been used by S&W only in internal documents and in advertising.

I have seen no place, other than that one web site, which ever used the term "U.S. Revolver, Cal. 38, Victory Model". Except for the long-ago Model 1899, the M&P, Victory Model or not, was never formally adopted by the U.S. as a standard service pistol (the Model 1917 revolvers were), and I can find no place where it is referred to by the government (correspondence, manuals, etc.) or by S&W in correspondence with the government, as either a "U.S. Revolver" or as the "Victory Model". It is always called the Military & Police (it's original name), M&P, or just as the S&W .38 revolver.

Jim
 
.38 spl. In the 1960's (about then if I recall right...they seemed to turn up about the time of the .38 Enfields) some of the brit. guns came back to the US. These were rechambered to .38 spl, and some will tend to split cases at times.
 
I can see occaisional case splitting with a .38S&W converted to .38special if it was done by just cutting the chamber a little longer. .38S&W case is a tad fatter than the .38special. Thus loose chamber.

Sam
 
I have test fired a converted Victory model and the cases do baloon out a little.

If I am not mistaken, After shooting President Kennedy, Oswald used a imported, Victory model converted from 38 S&W to 38 Special to shoot and kill a Dallas Police officer.

mike
 
If you read the WWII Revolver info on the page mentioned above
http://www.wwa.com/~dvelleux/milhguns.htm

You'll see that 5" barrels were made for British forces using .38/200, aka .38S&W. And the 4" barrels were for the US .38spl rounds. I assume these SOG Victory revolvers were brought back from UK.

I was going to buy it, but thought I was getting a 38special. But for $150.....it's a darn good price.
 
Thanks for all the replies! I admittedly do not know as much about revolvers as I should... Mike, thanks for the explaination, SOG's ad confused the heck outta me! I don't think I'm going to get it because like others have said, it might be a pain to get .38 S&W (if they're not converted). And if they are indeed the converted ones, are they safe to shoot even though they balloon the cases?
 
V-Model S&W M&P/Hand Ejector Revolvers

I've had a couple of these fine revolvers and they were entirely satisfactory, within their inherent limitations.

Montgomery-Ward department store in Fort Worth had a BUNCH of 'em for sale in the early 1960s. They were the British Service revolvers, with barrels cut to about 3.5 inches and a rather nicely-done new front sight base with ramp sight installed. They'd had a reamer run into the chamber so they would accept .38 Spl ctg. New, checked, stocks were installed, and left side of frame was pantograph engraved, "Converted by Cogswell & Harrison, London." Lanyard swivel remained. Mine was fairly accurate with 158 LRN factory loads. The cases looked rather odd, sort of a semi-bottleneck effect, but not so expanded near the base, where the case web kept it to more-or-less normal .38 Spl configuration. About one in 15 cases would show a minor split on first firing. The others could only be reloaded once or twice before giving up.

With all respect to Mike Irwin, I would have no fear whatever shooting such a converted piece, with non-Plus P ammo.

The unaltered five-inch version was an excellent, even more accurate revolver. Shot the factory 148 gr. .38 S&W ctgs just about to point of aim, regardless of the fact that the Brits fed it with the .380 2Z round. This was loaded with a 173 gr. FMJ bullet with a long, nearly conical RN shape. THAT was their replacement for the .380/200 lead round. I presume it was to comply with the "Rules of War" limiting lead bullets for military use.

For the $150 price tag, the SOG offering is an excellent buy. They clearly state that the caliber is .38 S&W. This is not a bad little cartridge, and, in such a strong revolver, can be VASTLY improved by handloading.

My son loaded a bunch of these with .38 Spl HBWC, with the hollow end forward, over a healthy charge of Unique. They were nicely accurate out to about 25 yards. He also fused some of the old 200 gr. blunt RN bullets, to make up some more powerful loads. I'd hesitate to give the exact powder charge data here, without some STRONG cautions. Most .38 S&W data in the loading manuals is pretty conservative. The majority of revolvers so chambered were of break-top design and I fear some of Elder Son's loads would have done most of those older pieces no good at all.

I've also worked with some Webley and Enfield revolvers. While I'm not about to give up my Colt autos and such, I was impressed with their accuracy and reliability. Any GOOD quality .38 S&W revolver would serve well for defense in the hands of a decent shooter. Accuracy is very good and recoil is moderate. Factory LRN ammo is common, and odd lots of Brit Service .380/2Z and FN commercial FMJ ammo show up from time to time.

There--More than you ever wanted to know about the topic. :p

Best,
Johnny
 
"With all respect to Mike Irwin, I would have no fear whatever shooting such a converted piece, with non-Plus P ammo."

By all means, be my guest.

I choose a different course of action, though.

I wouldn't shoot a gun so converted.
 
Cleared now - - -

Sorry about that. Didn't realize I had the problem until got e-mail from webmaster that you were trying to send PM, and then couldn't make the fields accept anything from my keyboard.

Jiggled all the wires I could and must have fixed something that was loose. Sorry about that.

Best,
Johnny
 
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