1913 Imperial Luger

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highpower3006

New member
I just acquired this 1913 Luger from a LGS. The story is that a lady inherited it from her uncle when he passed away. I am not a Luger collector and don't know a whole lot about them, but I do know that a pre WWI matching number, original finish Imperial Luger is not all that common a gun to find.

I would say it has somewhere around 80-85% of it's original rust bluing and about the same for the strawed parts. Bore is good with minor pitting, but sharp lands.

The best thing is that all parts are matching numbers except the magazine, even the grips and firing pin match. Pretty good for a 101 year old gun.

My pictures don't really show the condition of the gun to it's full extent as the glare kind of washes it out.

1913 P.08 Luger
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According to the Standard Catalog of Luger (Davis 2006), your pistol would be a 1908 Military, Dated.

Based on what I can see (very good pics thanks), your gun meets the criteria,
Toggle has scrolled DWM
four digit year date over the chamber
no stock lug
no commercial proof marks (the pic of the underbarrel shows the German Military Test Fire Proof (if I am correct), and not the commercial crown over N proof mark.

the original magazine would have a tin plated wrap around body and a wood base. It would have been proof marked and serial # to the gun.

The book rates this as a "common" model, with a total production of about 58,000. 18,000 were produced in 1913.

Value (in 2006) was VG $750 Excellent $1000. Luger prices (like everything else) have jumped a lot since then. Exactly what your pre-WW I matching number (except the magazine) gun is worth right now, I can't say, but in my area, $1000 seems to be the low asking price for mismatched "shooter" guns.

They don't always sell for that, but everyone seems to think any Luger, even a mismatched gun with almost no finish is "worth" $1000 these days.

You have a very good Luger finish wise, and complete matching numbers adds significantly to the collector value. Good Score!
 
I have a similar DMW but a bit earlier, 1911.

It does not have a match serial magazine but it does have the correct magazine as described (tin, wooden base).

I ran it by the experts on the Lugar forum and it came in a whole lot higher than I paid for it (the gun shop was selling all Lugers at the same price).

If you want a check on value run it by them. They will want better pictures (yours are quite good). I just kept trying until I got the light and conditions that worked for them.

My guess its its probably worth 2k .

And please consider not shooting it. One broken part and the value drops down to the 1k mentioned.

I was going to shoot mine and they strongly urged me not to, so I gave myself 3 months to think about it.

While I was thinking (and working toward not) a guy wrote in that he had fired his all matching number Erfurt and that was it, it became a shooter.

100 years form now they will be less picky as they will be harder to get but for now thats the bar.

Have you taken it all the way down to the firing pin/striker assembly and checked that number? Its been a while but as I recall there is a pin that needs to come out to see it (or on some, mine I think you could see but I had it down to that point before I realized. it. Amazing how many small pars got numbered.

Theoretically if you can find a gun that has the same last 2 numbers you can swap parts and get the numbers to match. It would be a forgery and you have to research or hope the part you need has not been done in and changed.

Expert probably could tell and you still have to pay 1000- 1500 minimimum for the gun to do that with at which point unless is a 3-4 k gun you have a wash (and or a gun you need to buy an expensive part for to make it a shooter you can sell. hmmmm
 
Have you taken it all the way down to the firing pin/striker assembly and checked that number? Its been a while but as I recall there is a pin that needs to come out to see it (or on some, mine I think you could see but I had it down to that point before I realized. it. Amazing how many small pars got numbered.
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Yes I have, everything matches, even the grip panels. I was a bit nervous when I bought it as I know very little about the nuances of Luger collecting. From what I do know about them in general, I could tell it had the original finish and the major parts all matched. It wasn't until I got home and did a complete disassembly, that I realized that it still had all the parts it left the factory with a 101 years ago.

It would be nice if it was worth a couple grand (I paid less than half of that), although I didn't get it with the intention of selling it. I just have wanted a decent Luger for years.
 
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You sure got your wish - a decent P08, and at a more than decent price ! . :cool:

( I luv it, when a plan comes together ! :p )

I may be preaching to the choir, but please keep in mind that Parabellum pistole's require strongly-loaded ammo for proper cycling/function.


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It would be nice if it was worth a couple grand (I paid less than half of that), although I didn't get it with the intention of selling it. I just have wanted a decent Luger for years.
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The finish isn't in great shape, esp. the area on the barrel, but I would say it's easily worth a grand as a parts-matching WWI-era Luger. To get to $2k and higher you have to look at the high condition or the rarer models - artillery length barrel, early contract guns, etc.

luger.gunboards.com is a very good place to learn about Lugers, there are some very well known collectors and authors there. I have three DWMs and an Erfurt, one of the DWMs is a 1908 Bulgarian contract Luger and it's pretty special, at least to me. 10K of them were made, but were used hard in both Balkan wars and in WWI (and maybe WWII), and were later mostly parted out or destroyed. There are very few complete survivors.
 
Well, maybe not "great shape" but pretty darned good for that old a gun and one that probably saw service in at least one World War. Not many of that vintage are that good. More important, there are no signs of abuse or attempts to "improve" the gun.

Jim
 
but please keep in mind that Parabellum pistole's require strongly-loaded ammo for proper cycling/function.
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A word of caution about "strongly loaded ammo". The original Luger load was a 124gr FMJ @ 1050fps. By WWI this had been changed to a 115gr @ 1150fps.

An in spec Luger should run on this. DO NOT confuse "strongly loaded ammo" with anything +p or +p+!!! These loads are NOT for the Luger!!!

For generations, US loaded metric caliber ammo was not as "hot" as European made stuff. A lot of the Luger's reputation for being unreliable comes from this. Not all, but a lot.

If you are going to shoot it, do so only sparingly, and only use standard 9mm ball ammo. Make SURE its not HOT SMG ammo. Avoid all +p loads!
 
I have a 1913 similar to yours with the S/N 28xx a. That's only about 500 numbers apart. It was the third handgun I ever owned in my life and the first Luger. It was hanging on a peg in small country grocery store in northern Florida, and I paid the princely sum of $15.00 for it in 1964.

Has your gun been retro fitted with a hold open?
 
Has your gun been retro fitted with a hold open?
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The pin in the frame on the right side above the trigger hinge pin in the second picture indicates the retrofit has been done. My date-wiped Erfurt has the same thing (making it likely a 1913 or prior gun).
 
It's dated 1913. IIRC, the holdopen was ordered restored (it had been put on pre-'08 pistols) in April (?) 1913, so 1910-1912 and some 1913 pistols would have been made without it and had to have it put in. The work was likely done over a period of time as the guns were recalled.

Jim
 
The sources I have seen are a little unclear on the exact timing, but John Walter says the war department (Germany's, presumably) issued the details of the hold open on May 6, 1913, noting that the Erfurt factory had been instructed to apply the retrofit (how much earlier it doesn't say).

What's not really clear (in my mind at least) is how long DWM had been including the hold open, or if it was ever excluded from its guns. My 1908 Bulgarian contract P08 (serial 993 C) was made in maybe 1912 or 13 and has the hold open with no sign of it being a retrofit. My 1918 DWM and 20's commercial DWM, of course, have it as well.
 
The hold open was put on early pistols, including foreign contract guns, but when the German army adopted the Luger as the P.08, it was omitted, probably as a cost-saving measure. IIRC, DWM continued to cut the recess for it, but Erfurt did not. When the order was given to install/replace it, the DWM guns needed only the hole drilled and the hold open itself installed.

Jim
 
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