1911 vs 1991 and other slabsides questions

K

Kaylee

New member
Please pardon the elementary questions.. I don't know much about pistols yet.

I ask 'cause I've started looking around for a pistol that fits my hand better than the G30 I carry now (mag bites me, grip is a little fat). A buddy let me try a 1911 tonight, felt wonderful (I like all the extended controls on the model he had!) -- but it barfed twice in two mags. Eeek! Didn't go for that one.

Anyhow... what's the diff 'tween the 1911 and the 1991? I presume it's internals -- but what's the exact difference, and what effect does it have?

Also, I do like the slimmer grips of the single-stack 1911s -- but the front strap kept rubbing me the wrong way on all of 'em -- felt too sharp. I know there's rubber "wraparound" grips to fix that.. but does anyone produce a model with a wider, shallower frontstrap, other than the Para widebodys?

The only other one that felt nice was a Walther P99 -- do they make it in .45 (yes, I'm married to that caliber. call me old-fasioned) -- and are there decent holsters out for it yet?


Thanks!

-K
 
Sounds to me like you shot a Springfield. They have a very thick frontstrap that isn't too pleasing to the hand IMO. A Kimber or Colt should fit your hand just fine.

As for 1911 vs. 1991, the difference is only in the minds of Colt's marketing department. Back in 1991 (the year) Colt introduced an economy, military-styled version of their Series 80 pistols, and they adopted the name "M1991A1" as a throwback to the old M1911A1 designation of the WW2-era guns. The 1911-style pistol has gone through several minor evolutions in the past 90 or so years, but the basic design remains the same. Most changes have been to appearance or the small parts, or added features like a firing pin safety.

For recommendations, go with either a new Colt or a baseline Kimber. Either will sell for less than $700 and won't be full of useless fluff like the high-end guns are.
 
Plus...

all the accessory stuff for the 1911 will work on the '91A1. Springs, bushings, barrels, etc. Like dsk says, with the exception of the added firing pin safety, it's the same weapon. I have a '91A1. It shoots fine. Feels good grip wise but I want to get some rosewood grips and lose the black rubber. There's nothing wrong with the grips as is, I just like the wood.

More than acceptable accuracy out of the box. Decently tight slide/frame fit (but it's not a competition gun). I bought mine NIB for $450, I think. I originally bought it to remove the slide from and use on a MecTech CCU. That worked fine, but the durn thing shot so well as a pistol I think I need to spend less money for the CCU thing and keep the Colt intact.

I also thought about picking up a .400 Corbon barrel, but I blew that off, too, for two reasons. One, why not just buy a 10MM pistol, and, why mess with a gun that works? People badmouth the .45 ACP, but I sure don't want to get shot with one, and I don't think they do either. Stopping power, shmopping power. If one don't work, six more sure will. If seven .45's dont drop a BG, he's got green skin and is radioactive anyway.;) Time to throw it at him and run.:eek:

Maybe I just got lucky. It happens. Take what I think about the one I bought for what it's worth (one vote out of many). Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the info!

It was a Daly, not sure of the vintage. The guy had apparently had a lot of work done to it, and several folks (friends, even!) had said it would outshoot anything else in the case... so I agreed to try it.

My G30 on one side, the Daly on the other. G30 never hiccuped, and shot tighter. Daly was all over the paper, mag needed a HARD slam to seat, and still barfed. Twice. Ick. Doesn't inspire confidence.

I've been reading on here a fair amout about the various versions of 1911s over the years, and presume that the one I tried wasn't a fair sample of what the design itself is capable of.

Factory-wise, Kimber, Springfield, and (new) Colt are the front-runners reliability wise now, right? Is that kinda like the "A-B-C" of ARs?

By the way -- it wasn't the width of the front strap that got me -- it was that hard rounded edge! A (slightly) wider body with a shallower curve to it would prolly be ideal. Or heck, just a shallower curve. Would I have to go for a wrap-around grip to soften that front strap, or are there other models that are wider?

(Gee.. sound like Goldilocks now don't I.. G30's too fat.. 1911's too narrow.. what's just right?? :) )

Thanks!--

-K
 
As dsk stated before the 1991A1 produced by Colt has the Series 80 firing pin safety that the 1911 (like the Series 70) lack. I believe most people complain about this feature because the trigger job on a Series 80 don't come out as nice as a pre-Series 80 1911s. But a good trigger job on a Series 80 is better than most factory triggers from European autos.

The 1911 isn't as simple as the Glock because you do have to flick the safety off before you can fire off your first shot. But thats something that can easily be overcome if your willing to train yourself for it to become an intuitive motion. If you can the 1911 is one of the quickest handguns for getting off that critical first shot.

I've only shot Colt 1911's (made during the 80's and 1991A1's made recently) and they all performed as reliably as any German/Austrian high tech pistol.


Currently the Walther P99 is not made in .45 ACP but I'm sure American consumers are petitioning Walther to change that fact even as we speak. But there is already a great modern single stack .45 that has amassed quite a following, the Sig P220.
 
Kaylee...

Wraparound grips are available, and sound like the answer for you. As far as reliability, I think the 'tuned' guns sometimes get more finicky about ammo. It's a function of springs and slide/frame fit. Cometition guns have tighter tolerances in the slide/frame fit, and the barrel/bushing and barrel/slide locking area.

Much of the add on stuff (ambi-safetys, beavertails, sights, curved backstrap) that you get standard with the higher priced guns can be added over time to a base gun as you feel the need. Some features (rounding the sharp edges of carry guns, for ex.) start to make the higher priced guns like the Kimbers make more sense. You can do this to a 1991A1, but, considering this means a refinish in addition to the grinding and polishing, why not just spend the money up front?

Since I never saw the need for the rounding business, I can get away with just doing things when I feel like it. For a good carry gun, there are some minimum adds that are worth having done right away, like the ambidextrous safety, flaring the mag well, better sights, and maybe polishing the feed ramp. After these, it's just taste. Trigger work is only needed if you don't like what you get. No point in spending the bucks on this unless there is a bunch of slack or excessive pull required.

Also, I wouldn't spend a ton of money accurizing a carry gun, especially if it involves closer tolerances in the slide/frame fit. Like I said, this tends, in some cases, to decrease reliability sometimes. 'Sloppy' 1911 style guns can be improved with barrel and bushing work, which I would focus on for a carry gun, initially at least.

Heck, I'm taking all the fun out of this for you, maybe. I know that I spend way too much time thinking about this stuff, and there are some guys on this board who have probably forgotten more about the 1911 than I will ever know. Buy one of these, and post a problem, and they'll have a solution.
 
On the other hand...

if you scrounge around, you can pick up a Sig P245. Nice compact carry (for a .45), and it IS a Sig. I got mine with the tritium sights for $650. No work required.

I know. Now I'm being a b--thead. Actually, I like the '91A1 AND the P245. But then, I like 'em all, pretty much. It's why my wife prefers that I be accompanied on visits to the "store".:D
 
Thanks trap!

First off.. the SIG. You know, I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing about 'em. Seems like everyone I talk to loves 'em, and I'm sure they're well put together. BUT... from the first time I picked one up, right through a few hours ago when I gave 'em another chance.. they just don't feel right to me. The controls feel awkward, and never in quite the right place for me.

I suppose really what I'm looking for is a good semi-auto sidearm I can trust implicitly, and that FEELS RIGHT in my hand. So far I haven't found one... I'm thinking a well put together single stack 1911 is gonna be it, but I ain't decided yet.

I admit, the history and mystique is a big part of that, so I'd PREFER to stick with wood grips. But if I can't make it work, that's that, and I'll look at somthing else.

Finally, I really don't get into pistols very much anyways, and likely will be an "only one" chick.. or mostly so. So, if I can cover the "purty" and "history" part with the "feels and works well" part, so much the better.

Thanks again --

-K
 
Parting shot (heh, heh)...

If the Sig doesn't feel right, don't buy it. I didn't mention the Springfield line. The 'loaded' series of pistols they have can be a good value for the money. I had an Ultra-compact that I got rid of for failing to feed, but that was only because I didn't feel like smoothing the action up a bit. I get impatient sometimes, one of my faults. (I traded for the Sig, which is what I really wanted anyway).

Despite my pickiness, the Sprinfields are a good value for the bucks if you check around, and you can find one with most of the goodies in the under a $1000 range easily. Lots of smart folks swear by them.
 
I wouldn't buy a Colt 1991. The one I used was a grade A plus Jamming machine. People bash EAA, but I've never fired an EAA that jammed like that Colt. Go for any other make that has a decent rep. With the Colt, you'll pay too much and get too little. Go for a Systema Colt 1927, which is a liscensed built 1911a1 built with Colt assistance back when Colt was a decent company.

That is, of course, just my own, humble opinion.
 
Everyone raves about how CZ fit so well in their hands. I love how my CZ75b fits in my hand. CZ makes a .45 called the CZ97. Its a double stack .45 that holds 10+1. Its DA/SA with a frame mounted safety. CZ is known for their rugged and dependable pistols. Check on out. Shouldn't run you more than $450.
 
Question for you kaylee,

Are you going to carry it CCW? If so you might want to take a look at a Kimber Compact or Pro Carry. Don't worry about the alloy frame, if you can afford to shoot it enough to wear it out you can also afford to replace it.

I'm a small-statured male, and while I can conceal a steel 1911 the weight really gets to me after awhile. The alloy-framed version is no problem even though there's only a 1/2# weight difference.
 
Davis,

I used to own a new HK USP/C 9mm and that thing was a jamamatic. The thing continued to malfunction after I got it back from the factory with a new extractor and "modified" ejector. Sold it. But do I disbelieve all the USP fans who swear by theirs? No. I just happen to get a lemon thats all.

Since then I've shot other USP's in 9, .40, and .45 with no problems at all.
 
A good idea...

Since you were discussing slimming down your collection in favor of just a few "top drawer" pieces, now would be an excellent time to either A) pick up a top drawer 1911 like a Les Baer, Wilson, or a Springfield Professional or B) starting with a platform like a relatively basic Kimber, Springfield or 1991A1, you could build a truly bespoke handgun. I don't have any "before" shots of my current project, but below, you can see "during" and "current" pics of my Springfield V-10:

v10.jpg

v102.jpg


The gun (an Officer's size, ported 1911) came factory with the porting and an extended thumb safety. I've had the frontstrap and dust shield recontoured (to eliminate the "blockiness" you noticed), added Navidrex smooth contoured CCW grips in grained ebonywood and the de rigeur stainless hex-head grip screws, an STI long polycarbonate and titanium trigger, Novak sights, Ed Brown checkered flat stainless mainspring housing, Chip McCormick stainless "memory bump" beavertail, 24lb recoil spring, ramped & throated.

Best of all? It's just mine; spec'd out just by me, for me. I think everyone needs one gun that's absolutely personalized, their own "jedi lightsaber", don't you? ;)
 
they just don't feel right to me
Click to expand...

That counts big, Kaylee. Get what feels good to you.

And if it's a slabside (that's a GOOD thing!) consider getting one of the Argentinian .45s. Made on Colt machinery in Argentina in days gone by, the quality is just fine. I walked away wiht one for $352 out the door, and there is NOTHING wrong with it. I can add all the goodies down the road.

Do a search on Cruffler or Argentine here and you'll find a few threads on the subject...


A caveat about Springfield - their customer service does NOT come close to the quality of their guns.
 
*chiming in with my .02*

Hiya Kaylee...

Definitely see if you can find a 1911 type with a wraparound grip to try out...that would eliminate the 'hard rounded edge' feeling that you're getting from the pistol.

Although I will say that after a while you DO get used to it... :D
 
Thanks everyone!

Ok..

went back by the shop today, went though and handled just about everything they had. 1911's won (actually, a Springfield did), followed by a Walther P99, and I think CZ, HK, and a couple others all kinda tied at 3rd.

Tamara, you're right on with that interpretation and advice -- thank you! I gotta admit, I really like this "absolutely personalized" thing I've seen.. so.. I think that's the way I'll go.

Get a basic ol' Colt and work it up from there as time and money allow. (Found myself a good deal on a "top shelf" rifle as well, so I'll be putting most funds that way in the short term I think.. anyone want to buy a Bushy AR or Polytech M14? *heh*)

Thanks for the inspiration Tamara, and CastleBravo! Heck.. I've even been toying in the back of my mind with some woodcarving ideas for grips and leathertooling ideas for a holster.. I think I'll try to come up with something absolutely unique (though not overdone).. I promise I'll have an image when it's all done.. eventually. *heh*



(PS -- love the "jedi lightsaber" analogy Tamara!)

Thanks again all!

-K

PPS.. think this kinda gutting of stock weapons will be looked at in fifty years the same way as sporterizing of milsurps is by the collectors now?

PPPS .. *heh*
The one thing I'll really miss from my G30 I think is the Tennifer finish on the thing. Is there something equally weather resistant I can get done on a 1911 down the line?
 
Oh, my...

Rust-resistant coatings?

Matte nickel, hard chrome, NP3, Boron Carbide, Black-T, Green-T, Bearkote, & a partridge in a pear tree!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top