1911 tolerances?? I mic'd mine and need to compare!!

T

TVDean

New member
I'm wondering about the tolerances of my P14 Limited. I just micrometer'd some aspects of it and wonder if it's within norms.

Gun fully assembled, lateral movement between frame and slide (side to side). I pushed max one direction, then pushed max the other on both sides of gun towards the front of frame, where the dust cover / frame meet.

Results:
Left side - .035" movement
Right side - .038" movement

Barrel hood movement(pushing down on hood at "in battery" position):
.012"

The gun rattles when shaken.
 
I honestly dont know what factory is, but I feel confident in tell you that .012 at the hood is excessive. 0.0 is ideal.
I fit my slide to 0.0 and lap with no measurable movement and have excellent results. check at the muzzle and see what you get.
 
TVDean, I mic'ed my Colt's Combat Commander not Lightweight) for another data point for you. It has had about 3,000 rounds through it.
Left & right side movement: .004" in both directions.
Hood movement pushing down while in battery: .008"

Sounds like your's is a little sloppy as you surmised.
 
"..who cares as long as it shoots straight.."

You know, it does shoot pretty straight. Although not as accurate as my friends Colt in a side-by-side comparison. (same ammo, same shooter, me)

I have no doubt that the gun would be more accurate if I couldn't almost fit a piece of .040" safety wire between the slide and frame!!

For a 1911 to be accurate, the mechanisms need to lock up in the same position EVERY time. How can that happen with this much free-play?

I went to the gun shop yesterday after posting this to compare mine to other P14Limiteds. He had two more in stock and layed them on the counter. Of the three, mine was the sloppiest. I have less than 500 rds. through it. One of the specimins was down right tight. I wish I would have bought that one.

My point is that Para can apparantly built better Limiteds than mine. I want what I pay for, not a half hearted-slipped by QC-average Joe won't notice-sloppy weapon.

While there I picked up a Kimber, WOW!!
No noticable movement in any direction. The barrel and slide must have been welded together.

If this workmanship is status-quo for the Para product then shame on me for buying it. If this gun is out of factory specs and they dont care, shame on them.

I'm gonna keep trying to get a straight answer from Para, if they play me like a fool I will pass on what I learn to the shooting community. If they take care of this situation in a professional matter then I will sing a song of praise.

The gun is sloppy. It was sent to Para to remedy the problem, it came back the same way. I'd like to see the blueprints of Para's P-14. I doubt .038" gap is acceptable.

My sociology prof. said we need education to become smarter consumers and smarter jurors. I'm trying to be a smarter consumer.

Weshoot, I've heard you manufacture quality ammo. I would hate to shoot quality ammo from a sloppy platform. Quality throughout the gun industry is our goal, wouldn't you agree?
 
Talked to the "gunsmiths" at Para today. he said the movement I described above is not somthing they will do anything about. He said "..this is a production gun, as long as it shoots fine...."

....I should have got the Kimber!!

For sale: Factory Toleranced P-14 Limited, less than 500 rds. through it. Only .038" slide to frame fit mismatch and even less barrel hood movement at .012" Gunsmith checked and approved to Para's definition of how a 1911 should be built. Great bargain at $785.00 ($35.00 added on for the shipping to get it "gunsmith approved")

Hurry this great deal won't last long!!
 
Its too bad. As long as there isnt much chance of causing injury and it'll get the bullet out the barrel as with most of them now that are producing a "production" gun, what we see is what we get. We really have to do is start getting real picky on what we are willing to take home. Be it mechanics or cosmetics keep handing it back to the dealer rather than your cash. I return too many pieces to my wholesalers just to get a acceptable gun for my customer. IT AINT RIGHT! I cant really keep a large enventory so when I have a customer thinking hes getting what he want on tues and I cant provide it because I wouldnt accept the gun guess where my customer goes. I dont blame him I blame the manufacture. Here's the rule: before you plunk down your hard earned money- shake the hell out of it...if it rattles tell him you dont want it. dry-fire it and shake it some more. Be as abusive as you can without getting thrown out of the shop, BUT DONT DROP IT! Look very closly at the finish and look for scratches. Look for bad de-burring and hanging burrs. If you have to handle these things like there a new born or something - something is wrong. Dont buy their junk.
 
I pulled out my Les Baer's and tried to make the same measurement. It was pretty diffucult because they are so tight, so I could not measure any movement in any directions. I would have to say that the play is 0.0. I only have about 3500 rnds in the Premier II and about 2500 in the Concept 1, so I would expect it to be a bit tight still.

Sorry you are haveing problems. Try a Les next time. Very tight and accurate.

pete
 
TVDean, I agree. Quality is paramount. And it is certainly my goal (but I don't manufacture Paras'!).

If my gun goes bang with accuracy EVERY TIME then I don't care about fit. But I end up putting a grand or more in most of my autos (EAA, Glock, Caspian 1911).

(Flame time) My Ruger wheels all shoot great out of the box; I put Decelerators and Millett orange ramp fronts on them.

I also believe in quality ammo, no matter what gun it exits.


------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
The Para plant Mgr. called today from Toronto. He had a talk with the president of the company (Ted Szabo I presume) and told me to send the gun back to where it just came back from!!

Oh,..with his name on it. They're apparantly expecting it.

After I asked, he told me to fax the UPS bill to him.

If this were a hamburger, I'd wonder about foreign matter in it when it returns. he-he
 
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