1911 Mystery Malfunction

L

LouisianaAviator

New member
I have a Colt Series 80 1991 blued 1911 in .45 Auto. As soon as I picked it up from the store, I took it to my gunsmith to have him tune the extractor, polish the feed ramp & breech face, and replace the recoil and firing pin springs with Wolff ones. I also bought Wilson 47d magazines.

The gun has about 1200 rounds through it, and it had never had a hiccup of any kind. However, when I shot 100 rounds yesterday, something happened. A couple of magazines through, I shot all 8 rounds and the slide locked back as it's supposed to. When I looked into the breech, however, there was the last empty casing sitting there on top of the magazine.

I keep the 1911 clean, field stripping it after every shooting session and cleaning & lubricating it. However, I had never taken out the extractor. After getting home, I took out the extractor and cleaned out the channel with a Q-Tip, and this is what came out: http://i.imgur.com/WZOVdG9.jpg

Should I still consider this weapon reliable enough for self defense? What causes an empty case to be left sitting on top of a locked back magazine?
 
The empty case probably got loose from the extractor.
With all the gook that came out of the extractor slide channel, it's not surprising.
What is that stuff?
It looks like heavy grease.
Just clean it all out and lightly smear some gun oil on the extractor and give it a try.
It will probably shoot just fine.
 
Should I still consider this weapon reliable enough for self defense?
Click to expand...

Yes! If it will go 1200 rounds without a failure to extract, you got a good one. Just deep clean it every 200-300 rounds and you'll be fine.
 
Oh, to clarify, the "malfucntion" occured somewhere around the 20th round, and the weapon continued to function without incident after that for the rest of the 80 rounds
 
I bought my first one in 1973 I believe. A Series 70.

It is still 100% factory original and has been shot quite a bit.

I have never had any issue with the pistol itself.

The very few problems that I have had were 100% my fault.

My other Colt 1911s are of later origin but still Series 70, and I have had the same "luck" with them and they also are 100% factory original.

The "thing" or blob that came out of your extractor has never been witnessed by me. Strange.
 
The "thing" or blob that came out of your extractor has never been witnessed by me. Strange.
Click to expand...

I'm quite generous with my application of CLP. It looked to me like a mixture of CLP, burnt gunpowder, and unburnt gunpowder
 
I'm quite generous with my application of CLP. It looked to me like a mixture of CLP, burnt gunpowder, and unburnt gunpowder
Click to expand...

Well, Sir, you know your practices and procedures 100% better than me.

I would not be surprised one bit if your analysis is completely true.

My procedures and practices are quite different than yours are, but no one is saying either of us is wrong or right.

I usually do not discuss such issues simply because each shooter has his/her own tried and true methods.

The only suggestion is already out there. Maybe not so much CLP, or, just try to clean it off when you are satisfied that it has done its job.

Personally, I leave nothing wet except the slide, and then very slightly.

Way back when, I had a problem with severe powder residue and it was all my fault. I then switched to graphite in a spray can that went on wet, but dried very quickly. I removed the over spray with a dry towel. Towels are very useful in cleaning firearms and they are cheap at Wally World.

The very best of luck in your future endeavors. It appears that your pistol is a winner.
 
Well, Sir, you know your practices and procedures 100% better than me.

I would not be surprised one bit if your analysis is completely true.

My procedures and practices are quite different than yours are, but no one is saying either of us is wrong or right.

I usually do not discuss such issues simply because each shooter has his/her own tried and true methods.

The only suggestion is already out there. Maybe not so much CLP, or, just try to clean it off when you are satisfied that it has done its job.

Personally, I leave nothing wet except the slide, and then very slightly.

Way back when, I had a problem with severe powder residue and it was all my fault. I then switched to graphite in a spray can that went on wet, but dried very quickly. I removed the over spray with a dry towel. Towels are very useful in cleaning firearms and they are cheap at Wally World.

The very best of luck in your future endeavors. It appears that your pistol is a winner.
Click to expand...


I've often wondered if I use too much lubricant, and I think you're right. I'm not even sure why I use so much lubricant, it's just something I've always done. I'll have to try using less. Thanks for the advice!
 
In my experience, CLP won't turn into a blob like that....unless you have a lot of unburnt powder coming out of your shells.....

I've always run my 1911's on the wet side....and i lube with CLP or wilsons ultima lube....and i have never seen gunk like that come out of an extractor channel...

If you have a lot of unburnt powder on your arms - or on the bench after you shoot a couple of boxes, i would suggest you try different ammo...

The extractor channels do retain some carbon and crud... but even after 20 boxes, it will discolor the end of a Q tip.... but not in piles like that...?? ...

After you clean, lube and reinstall the extractor....tip the gun up and any excess lube will run out....or you can use a cotton pipe cleaner...to go in the channel behind the hook on the extractor and get any excess out ...even squirt some solvent in the channel and clean it with that pipe cleaner ...

I average about 8 boxes a week thru my primary 1911...and while i field strip and clean it after every range session ....i pull extractor & firing pin out every other week ... or about every 800 rds....and i have never seen that much gunk come out.../ ..but until you get the cause figured out, i would pull the extractor & firing pin every 400 rds...
 
Last edited:
As soon as I picked it up from the store, I took it to my gunsmith to have him tune the extractor, polish the feed ramp & breech face, and replace the recoil and firing pin springs with Wolff ones
Click to expand...

Without even shooting it at all, to see if it needed work done?? OK, that's your call. Now, WHAT did your gunsmith DO?, exactly?

I'm wondering if the mystery "blob" could be left over polishing compound that the smith missed cleaning out, now full of powder residue/carbon...

Any chance you saved the case that failed to eject, for examination and comparison? Didn't think so...:rolleyes: (we almost never do, unless the malfunction is drastic)

It is (remotely) possible that the ONE case that failed to eject in 1200+ rnds might have had a slightly undersize rim, (thickness), allowing it to be extracted, but slipping the grip of the extractor and not ejecting.

Generally speaking, when a gun malfunctions due to gunk/weak/worn/loose/broken part(s), it does it repeatedly. When its only a single isolated failure, the likely source isn't the gun, its the ammo.

If, for example that one round had failed to fire, would you be looking at your firing pin, and other parts as the likely cause, or would you think maybe it was just a single bad round, considering all 1200+ fired normally, both before and after??

I would consider the ammo the most likely cause, that one "bad" round.
Unless /until it happened again. THEN I might go looking at the gun for something out of kilter...
 
Or oil coagulated with powder residue. Too much CLP.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking. Like I said, it never had the issue again for the rest of the shooting, but I'll be keeping a closer eye on it and need to shoot it more to make sure.

Any chance you saved the case that failed to eject, for examination and comparison? Didn't think so... (we almost never do, unless the malfunction is drastic)
Click to expand...

Actually, I did. I can't really find anything unusual about the casing, except there are what looks like burn marks on the underside of the casing.
 
Last edited:
i think that gob of stuff,,,,oil and powder debris,,,caused the extractor to loose its grip on the case because the gunk was holing it away from the rim and it fell off before it got to the ejector

now that you have cleaned the extractor chanel and the extractor can resume its normal job with correct tension,,, i would say everything will be back to normal function

my .02

ocharry
 
A friend and I were at the range and a stranger came and asked if he could shoot the second hand pistol he just bought. No one else around so we said go ahead. But soon there was the sound of full auto !! He looked surprised ! :eek:
The minute I field stripped it I saw the hammer scear area was packed with
liquid, solid lube and powder Goop ! That can cause lots of problems !
Clean and LIGHTLY lube the gun and it might work. :)
 
My Commander does that every time, and I've decided that until it actually causes a functional issue, I'm not going to mess with it.
I have about the same number of rounds through mine, use 8-round mags, and clean/dirty/lubed/dry does not affect it.
If I were going to carry the gun regularly, I'd probably tweak a little more tension into the extractor.

Some people advocate a test of firing a round with no mag in the gun, which your gun, and mine, would fail when the case rattled out of the frame rather than being ejected.
 
Without even shooting it at all, to see if it needed work done?? OK, that's your call. Now, WHAT did your gunsmith DO?, exactly? ...
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I will shoot several hundred rounds in a new gun before considering any modifications, The best lesson I learned is to change one thing at a time. That way, if you have a problem, you know right away what it is. Doing several modifications at one time can make finding a new problem more difficult.
 
If your extractor has little to no tension, firing a round with the magazine removed will typically find the case ejecting through the magazine well instead of the ejection port. Your extractor tension should be in the neighborhood of about 25 ounces. If you are using dirty ammo, its probably a good idea to remove the extractor and clean the tunnel. I use just enough lube to keep the extractor from rusting-mainly wiping it with a rag with lube on it and wiping off any excess. Wet lube in this area is a magnet for powder fouling so its best to keep it at a minimum.
 
"As soon as I picked it up from the store, I took it to my gunsmith to have him tune the extractor, polish the feed ramp & breech face, and replace the recoil and firing pin springs with Wolff ones. I also bought Wilson 47d magazines."

Now that is called not trusting the manufacturer. Wanna bet the "replacement" parts are actually inferior to the factory parts? Many are, though I won't name names, and many others are the same since the name gun makers buy parts from the same parts makers you do.

But that did not cause the problem; Aviator's cleaning approach did. We have a situation where the owner over cleans. That gunk could have been there from the factory, but it would be a better bet that the owner put it there by over-lubing and over-use of cleaning "stuff". My suggestion is to give the gun a good, complete disassembly and cleaning, then a light lube on the rails and the moving lock parts. A little lube in the right places is good; a lot of lube all over doesn't help at all.

Jim
 
Now that is called not trusting the manufacturer. Wanna bet the "replacement" parts are actually inferior to the factory parts? Many are, though I won't name names, and many others are the same since the name gun makers buy parts from the same parts makers you do.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I did not trust the manufacturer. The last 2 1911s I bought were new production Colt Series 70 and they had countless problems out of the box, and continued to have problems even after being sent back under warranty multiple times. Since this was a firearm I wanted to trust for defensive use, I took it to the gunsmith to have him check the extractor tension, polish the feed ramp, and change the factory 16lbs recoil spring to a Wolff 18.5lbs recoil spring, to give it the best chances possible of being reliable enough for me to consider for carry. The only parts replaced were the recoil spring and firing pin spring, and they're certainly upgrades in quality over the factory parts. Other than that, though, it's all original.

I'm still overall happy with the gun's performance and the gunsmith's work (1200 rounds without any stoppages), and I reckon I still trust it. I've since shot another 100 rounds and it functioned fine.

I've just started to use far less CLP and that has helped a lot
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top