1911 Makers, Service and Quality

P

PVerdieck

New member
OK. A lot of this maybe a rehash of the Les Baer Pistol from Hell thread, but anyways lets go with it.

Anyways, there are a number of us looking to pick up a sweet 1911. Right now I want to concentrate on the known brands, not necessarily the individual smiths (sorry Brian), because there is a lot more experience here with those brands.

So, if you are thinking of plopping down 800-1500 (nice range there :)) what do you have?

I see

Para-Ordinance
Kimber
Wilson
Les Baer
Springfield
Rock River Arms (?)

What I would like to know is what input I can get (without going into too many details) on what the out of the box quality, and service reputations is. Lets ignore magazines here, since the accepted wisdom is throw out the stock ones and get Wilsons.

Hopefully, I can read all the responses and get a good idea on what is a good pistol, and what kind of service I will get if I have to return it. We can also have a pointer the next time someone asks about brand X.

[This message has been edited by PVerdieck (edited February 20, 2000).]
 
I own two Wilson 1911's. Both fired very nicely right out of the box. On both pistols, I have adjustable sights so it was just a matter of tweaking. I haven't had any problems with either pistol yet.

I've never dealth with Wilson's customer service in regards to the pistol. However, I did send a TPR-15 (ar15 style rifle) back for adjustments and their customer service is outstanding! I got the rifle back before their estimated time frame.

I own two Kimbers. One is an Ultra Elite. The other is a Super Match. Both fire very nicely out of the box. Occasionally the Super Match wouldn't lock on the last round. I had a Wilson stop installed and that corrected the problem. The Ultra Elite shoots low. It's going to be sent back to Kimber tomorrow. I'll find out first hand how their customer service is.

Springfield's production 1911's are nice pistols. They are not the same as custom pistols. Springfield does have a custom line but the prices are pretty steep. Most are out of your $1500 range that you quoted.

I have a Les Baer that will be here in about two weeks. I'll post once I put some serious rounds through it. I did fire a Concept V today. With a rest, I shot roughly inch and three quarter groups @ 50 yards. The one I shot has adjustable combat sights. Out of the box, it's very tight. Other then the post I read on TFL about the Baer from hell, I haven't heard anything trully bad about them.

Good luck with whatever you buy.
P.S.
Try Brian Bilby (Advance Combat Pistols) and Rock River Arms too. Both seem great. I have no personal experience with them.

------------------
Svt
RKBA! NRA, GOA, VFW
My Website

"Rangers Lead the Way"
 
Wilson is not the only maker of good 45 mags. Personally, I think Wilson sub-contracts out too much stuff in general and, quality control can vary (in general on the parts at least). Ed Brown makes some excellant stuff at a comparable price point.

Now to the complete pistols.....

Kimber has been the best buy for a stock Government Model for a long time in the entry level price point. When you go up scale, there are many more choices.

Infinity pistols are among the very best "production" available. Their single stack 45 GM has been on my want list ever since I held one at the SHOT SHOW 2 years ago in Atlanta.

Les Baer used to be the only option for an up scale production 45. While Les Baer pistols are still everything they were then, I think equivelant quality can be purchased at a lower price point today.

Rock River Arms seems to be the new kid on the block worth watching. They have their act together and produce a high quality pistol at the pricepoints they compete at.

Springfield (production) pistols have a lot of hype behind them fueled by lots of advertising dollars. Their "loaded" campaign may be a good marketing ploy but, the quality of the pistols is still the same. In the past, they were the only viable option to Colt but, today the entry level 45 is much higher quality then what they produce. Their two piece barrels stink and, when you drop the slide, thumb the muzzle of the barrel and watch it move (good lock up ?).

Where do I spend my money?

~$600 to $700 range - a basic KIMBER

~$1200 to $1500 would be an Infinity as a first choice with Rock River a close second.

Sid
---
Tx FFL
 
Ive had a couple Para`s over the years and they are great guns!
customer service was great also
Ive got a new Kimber gold match that shoots like a dream
didnt need to use thier customer service
The wilsons are a great one also evem though i do not own one yet, ive been using his parts in my paras for years
Great products
Iagree that the springfields are a waste of money also ,i did the same thing when i was looking at the colt defender and compared it to the V10 the quality just was not in the sprinfield ,so i bought the colt defender which was my favorite carry peice till i got my new gold match from kimber


my 2 cents
 
You might also look at the 1911 heaven thoroughred pistols. I have an officers concealed carry model, and it is a sweet shooter that fits into your price range.
 
Dan Wesson has a new 1911.I'ts called the Pointman.Lot of Chip Mcormick parts, Millet adjustable sights, and nice rosewood grips.Also it's stainless. It's reveiwed in the April 2000 Handguns magazine, accurate and reliable.Also there is something about it under new products at www.danwessonfirearms.com. The price is $779 retail.
 
For around $659 the Para Limited can't be beat for feed reliabilty with 99% of ammo & it does have the "Games" advantage of holding 14-16rnds of ammo.
Also comes with the extra mag coupon & Paras mags aren't anywhere as sensitive as single stack "$10 variety" mags.
The feedramp & fully supported chamber are the best concepts since butter & bread were combined !
If you want a Para to feel like a single stack remove the grip panels, slap on some skate tape & the grip circumference ends up only 2/16" wider than a Kimber/Colt/Wilson etc with the grips on. :)
The Paras gotta be the best buy under $700 !!
********
From http://www.bachmangun.com/handguns.html
Para-Ordnance P-14 Limited Blue .45ACP with (1) hicap and coupon for 2 hicaps $ CALL
Para-Ordnance P-14 Limited Stainless .45ACP with (1) hicap and coupon for 2 hicaps $649.95
Para-Ordnance P-16 Limited Blue .40S&W with (1) hicap and coupon for 2 hicaps $ CALL
Para-Ordnance P-16 Limited Stainless .40S&W with (1) hicap and coupon for 2 hicaps $659.95
*******
From http://www.bernies-sports.com/
Para Ordnance P1640 Limited $ 709.95
********
The other place to try to better ANY prices is State Wide Pawn Shop - 5% Over COST ! http://www.sbshow.com/UT/StatewidePawnShop/


------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
Alternate E-mail
HS2000@ausi.com



[This message has been edited by HS (edited February 23, 2000).]
 
This thread is realy offering some good advice from some knowledgable folks.

I agree that on the low end the Kimber Classic Custom (I own two of them) is a great buy.

There is a new kid on the block introduced in early 99. I owned one of the early ones , but I understand the new ones have been dehorned. Areally tight and accurate 1911A1...Colt 01070XS...They are hard to come by right now, but Colt will be increasing production soon. (Don't puke 'til you try one!)

I agree with Gordon about the PO Limited, although it's getting hard to find them for less than about $725.

Last week I fired the new Rock River Basic Limited Match....what a gun!. RRA has really done a number on this gun. If I have any complaints about the 1911A1, RRA has solved them. It takes 4 months for them to build one for you, but the wait is worth it! Take a look at:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/basiclimited.htm

Pictures and text don't do justice to this piece...And, it falls within the upper end of your budget...Good Luck!
 
I got a Springfield loaded last week and am happy with it. I plan on customizing it sooner than later, and my purchase was influences by that knowledge. The finish is OK, but I'm going to change it anyway. The fit is acceptable and could be tighter, but I'll take care of that as necessary too. The trigger is stock, and those almost allways need to be worked on regardless of manufacturer. The two piece barrel will be replaced, but so would a one piece barrel. It has sharp edges, but the dehorn will take care of that. I saved a couple of hundred dollars over the Kimber, but will role that money into the modifications above. I've put two hundred rounds through my Springfield so far. It is, despite things I wish to change, very accurate and reliable so far. I wouldn't feel bad about leaving it the way it is, but I've got that darned 1911 modification bug! ;)

Enjoy whatever you get!

Erik

(Oh, with all of the modifications I want + the price of my Springfield I will have a pistol meeting exactly the requirements that I want minus the price of big name markup! Yes, my smith is qualified to do the work...)
 
I've owned 3 Kimbers and one Springfield. All have been totally reliable with anything I've fed them. In fact, my current carry pistol is a Kimber Stainless Covert. Excellent fit and finish. I guess 1911's CAN be reliable! :-)

Tom
 
What do you guys mean by Springfield having a two piece barrel? I can't picture this... I own a Kimber Custom Classic and love it. I was thinking about picking up a Springfield but this barrel business has me a little worried...
 
In context and within the price parameters you set,I could'nt be happier with Wilson. The out of the box quality is superb,the finish flawless and they see to it that the iron sight models shoot to point of aim at 25yds. Fact is,the Wilsons I own outshoot mant more expensive 1911 varients in the safe...As to customer service, Bill Wilson defines it. I have posted this story here before,but I think it can stand up to a repeat. Some time ago I ordered a set of custom grips for a Commander from Wilson. After several days shooting,one of the medallions fell out of the left grip panel. I phoned Wilson for a replacement to glue back as I could'nt find the dropped one. A few days later, a package arrived in the mail containing not only the new medallion,but a complete new set of grip panels as well.This my friends is what I call a fifty dollar solution to a fifty cent problem , and in my case, it bought them a lifetime customer. Over time,I have gotten to know some of the customer service staff, and most of these guys are IDPA shooters or at least serious weekend recreational guys that live for the weekend shoot just like we do,so that in the unlikely event that you have a problem with a product, when you call these guys, they CARE,because they UNDERSTAND,unlike minimum wage order takers just trying to make the day. Bill Wilson seems to have a knack for putting things together that work.
 
hi zonie,
if you take a careful look on the barrel hood of the springfield loaded gun you'll see a seam- their barrels for the loaded gun are press-fit two piece barrels. the main piece is just a straight section of rifled barrel, then the chamber section is reinforced with a "collar" that makes up the barrel feet. it keeps the manufacturing costs down. by comparison, kimber uses a single steel (or stainless) forging. i've seen a kimber barrel that was shot with a squib, bulged, but went on to shoot more rounds- looked like the hk usp ad. my main beef with the springfield is the very sharp edges- since i don't care what the guns look like, use a hand file and cold blue on a springfield and you've got a good fightin' gun!

best,
joe

------------------
www.skdtac.com
tactical accessories for self-defense and le
 
You left out STI. You might want ot look them over before you buy. They sold a fair number of pistols last year, second behind Wilson I believe in that segment. They have a 1911 called the Trojan for $950 that has everything you could want in pistol, plus great customer service.
 
1911 Heaven I agree 100% Wilsons handguns are great and there customer service is second to none.I also have gotten to shoot in a IDPA match with one of Wilsons customer reps in my squad and Bill and his son Ryan also shooting and they are good people,I just ordered a tactial carbine from them and I am sure it will the same quality.Good Shooting. BILLG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top