1911 mag tuning for earlier release

J

jpsshack

New member
I want to shoot wadcutters in my 1911 and I need to tune my mags, which I've never done. I'm reaching out to the community for any suggestions regarding this procedure. The feeding is pretty iffy as it stands, but my gun has a throated barrel, so the issue is definitely with the mags. It's a Springfield mil-spec, brand new. It feeds ball ammo perfectly, it's just the wadcutters that are occasionally jamming, creasing the brass near the case mouth against the barrel throat.
-jp
 
I think The Colt .45 Automatic, A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen is a worthwhile purchase for anyone who owns a 1911. (Kuhnhausen's second book on the 1911, The U.S. M1911/M1911A1 Pistols & Commercial M1911 type Pistols, A Shop Manual, is overkill unless you have post-apocalypse plans to build your own from raw steel. Both books desperately need better indexing.)

There are two basic lip designs on 1911 magazines, tapered and parallel. Release tuning of parallel lip mags is pretty much limited to making release earlier, shortening the lips by filing or grinding. Tapered lips may be adjusted, to a limited extent in either direction by bending. SFAIK, Brownell's and other vendors sell mandrels that make the process easier and protect the body of the mag in the process.
 
Yes, I have that book and it is excellent. I'll be referring to that, but I thought I'd gather whatever other tips I could before doing the work. Thanks for your reply. I will do a little cautious bending and chamfering around the mag lip area (they're tapered) for a slightly earlier release. Still welcoming feedback,
-jp
 
A couple of other points. If you are running lead bullets, I recommend loading to headspace on the bullet (third from left, below). It improves accuracy and reduces leading. It does make your cartridge a little longer.

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With care, you can increase the radius of the feed ramp a little. Some wadcutter noses don't take to the hardball feed ramp radius in the frame. With standard magazines my Goldcup and Springfield will feed empty cases from surplus military magazines with no problem. Same with stubby 185 grain LSWC's to H&G 68 types are all digested with equal ease by it. This takes some care, though, and it is easy to go too far or to destroy the straightness of the ramp or loose its guidance for hardball. Not recommended for beginners (though I was a beginner when I did the Goldcup and just got lucky, as my ex-military match team armorer/teacher explained to me later).
 
That's some good stuff. I didn't know about headspacing on the bullet–that will increase the OAL slightly, too. Thanks Nick–excellent points.
 
Before you start changing your mags or gun it may be best to try a different OAL for your loads.
When I was shooting a lot of 200 gr SWC loads my OAL was 1.245, these loads fed fine in a variety of different 1911 pistols.

Also keep in mind that a little extractor tuning will solve a lot of feeding issues.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Yes, yes! Bob has neatly identified the folly of thinking too far ahead and too complicated. By all means contour and polish the extractor hook and set the tension before messing with feed ramps or magazine lips or any of the rest of the stuff that's easy to get wrong and hard to reverse. The extractor is important to reliability in the 1911 in general, and not just for wad guns, so you want to do that anyway.

Another point on the ammo loading is that once the bullet is headspacing the round, the case neck is no longer reaching the end of the chamber. That allows more liberal crimping. Getting a taper crimp to bite into the bullet a few thousandths will make the front of the case slightly conical, which leaves a little more room for the case to turn the corner on the way into the chamber.

A lot of the old time bull's eye shooters actually put a fairly substantial roll crimp into bullets set out to headspace on the bullet. It's hard on brass life, but they they got improved accuracy from the practice. That crimp helps with ignition consistency by increasing start pressure. It's something else you can play with when you start using bullet headspacing, but I don't know whether its effect on feeding is better than the taper crimp has or not.

Also, I haven't examined any recently made .45 Auto seating dies to see if the roll crimp is still there? The tapers have taken over in the separate crimp dies. A crimp die made for .45 Auto Rim should have a roll crimp, though. You can probably get a roll crimp ring as a separate part for a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die, too, if you want to play with it.
 
What a wealth of information! great. One question–how does the extractor play into chambering a cartridge, say the first one in a magazine? I can't see how they could be related.
 
Alright folks–I took the gun out for the first time, nary a FTF or FTE with SWC or ball ammo. the ONLY issue seems to be loading the first round of SWC.
When I snap the slide back (or release the slide stop)on that first round it will sometimes jam, creasing the brass at an angle to he barrel, about 1/4-3/8" down from the case mouth. I can't believe I'm the first guy to encounter this. My local expert told me it's all feed ramp work (on the barrel). thoughts?
 
What a wealth of information! great. One question–how does the extractor play into chambering a cartridge, say the first one in a magazine? I can't see how they could be related.
Click to expand...

The 1911 pistol is designed to be a controlled round feed.
The cartridge should feed up under the extractor claw then chamber into the barrel.
Tuning the extractor hook with the proper angles on the claw and tension on the extractor can and will do a lot for feeding issues in a 1911 pistol.

The mark on the brass is most likely caused by the barrel entry ramp, the barrel entry ramp may need throated a little.
Be careful when doing this as you don't want the barrel entry ramp over throated.

Tune the extractor first, then work on the barrel ramp if needed.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
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When I snap the slide back (or release the slide stop)on that first round it will sometimes jam, creasing the brass at an angle to he barrel, about 1/4-3/8" down from the case mouth. I can't believe I'm the first guy to encounter this. My local expert told me it's all feed ramp work (on the barrel). thoughts?
Click to expand...

Reading this you say "it will sometimes jam", that makes me think it may be an ammo issue more then a gun issue.

If you are shooting reloads, check to make sure all the bell is out of the case.
Also check to see what condition the brass is in, check to see if the rim is nice and smooth, is the extractor rebate in the case all nicked up.
Also be sure and check the brass length to see if it needs trimmed, trim it back to specs if needed, especially if the brass has been fired several times.

I would also number all my mags so I could tell if it may be just one certain mag I'm having issues with.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Kuhnhausen mentions both earlier release timing and a lower magazine follower for semiwadcutter loads. You mention that the problem is only a first round issue. Next shoot, test whether the jam occurs when you release the slide manually on a short loaded magazine. If short loading remedies the problem, my next step would be experimenting with different magazine followers, first within those I already own, then with those I could borrow. Of course, for plinking and practice, short loading may be all the cure you need. (Fair warning, I am a cheap and lazy so-and-so.:D)
 
Before one alters the feed lips of magazines to feed lead semi-wadcutters, one should consider buying some magazines that come with semi-wadcutter lips and reserving the G.I., hardball magazines for possible future use. Seems like a more practical solution.
 
The 1911 pistol is designed to be a controlled round feed.
The cartridge should feed up under the extractor claw then chamber into the barrel.
Click to expand...

And to fire 230 grain FMJ ball ammunition.

SWCs and HPs present another set of problems.
 
For that matter, you could get an 8 round spring and follower kit with a concave follower, then only load the usual 7. But the extractor work comes first.

All my .45 Auto cases shrink about half a thousandths per loading cycle because the pressure is so low, but if they shrink far enough they need more crimp to get the case narrowed. Try to aim for the low side of the diameter spec at the case mouth. 0.467"-0.470". Somewhere in there.
 
Also take a look at the bottom rear corner of the barrel hood. There should be a slight chamfer on that edge leading into the chamber. A sharp unrelieved corner there will snag wadcutters and semi wadcutters on some guns. I agree with the posts suggesting making sure the extractor is set with the right amount of tension and smoothly radiused and polished with no sharp corners. The breechface should also be smooth with no burrs or deep toolmarks. And as Bob Hunter said it could very well be an ammo issue. Tuning mags to feed wadcutters was comonly done in the old days when all we had was GI ball magazines. Nowdays almost every mag manufacturer has the release point set for non-ball rounds.
 
The issue is clarifying itself–it is certainly related to the semi-wadcutter profile, over and above every other consideration. There are zero issues of any kind with hardball loads, and it doesn't matter how perfectly loaded the SWCs are, they will still jam. I have noticed a couple of things–mag tension seems to play a part–it always happens in the first 2 or 3 rounds of a full mag (yes, I believe short-loading may remedy the problem somewhat). This gun has a very powerful recoil spring, and when that SWC gets slammed into the chamber coming off of a full mag, the combined forces serve to jam it against the barrel ramp, creasing the brass heavily about 1/4" off of the case mouth and about 1/3 of the way around the circumference of the case. It remains lodged at a tilt until I can clear it. Obviously I won't be doing anything drastic to the gun, since wadcutters are a challenge for any 1911. That's why bullseye shooters have their "wad" gun and their "ball" gun, I suppose. I think I'd like to make this one into a "wad" gun, since it's so bloody accurate...I'm going to consult with a 'smith thats been recommended to me, and for now I will polish the ramp and break-over point with a rubberized tip on my rotary tool-no grinding. Still welcoming responses, but thanks again for all you've said so far. BTW, these are standard Springfield 7-round mags–the SWC's are Lee's H&G 68 copy, a well-loved design that always fed flawlessly in an H&K USP.
 
Bob, you were right–ammo issue.

Too light of a crimp.
When I firmed it up to .467 OD at the mouth(at the suggestion of two great bullseye shooters) the problem went away. In case anyone is still reading this thread!
-jp
 
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