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1911 made better?
- Thread starter sks
- Start date
I don't think JMB lived to see the Hi-Power as we know it, If I recall correctly, the design was completed by a Frenchman (?) working for FN.
IMHO, improvements are:
Ramped barrel
No barrel bushing
Better extractor
Ambi safety
No grip safety
As I see it, the drawbacks to the HP vs 1911 are:
9mm
Magazine safety (trigger pull)
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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.
[This message has been edited by Rex Feral (edited July 03, 2000).]
IMHO, improvements are:
Ramped barrel
No barrel bushing
Better extractor
Ambi safety
No grip safety
As I see it, the drawbacks to the HP vs 1911 are:
9mm
Magazine safety (trigger pull)
------------------
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.
[This message has been edited by Rex Feral (edited July 03, 2000).]
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Yep... John traded problems...
Actually John designed the Hi-Power to FN's specs.
This is the gun FN wanted - not John. John's masterpiece was already made.
Actually John designed the Hi-Power to FN's specs.
This is the gun FN wanted - not John. John's masterpiece was already made.
The original BHP had the same type extractor as the 1911, it was changed later, and did not have an ambi-thumb safety, they came along much later.
The original thumb safety had a teeny ledge and was hard to find under pressure.
The magazine catch spring was/is weaker than it should be, it is easy to depress the catch by accident.
------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
The original thumb safety had a teeny ledge and was hard to find under pressure.
The magazine catch spring was/is weaker than it should be, it is easy to depress the catch by accident.
------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
George,
Are you saying that JB's masterpiece was already the 1911 and that he just designed the HP for FN to please them?
I cannot remember the place where I read that the HP was his improvement but they did have him saying that. That was the question in my mind because the 1911 is THE MOST COPIED gun in history. IMHO.
I guess the things REX mentioned would be the key.
As always some good insight and thought from TFL.
Thanks guys.
sks
------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
Are you saying that JB's masterpiece was already the 1911 and that he just designed the HP for FN to please them?
I cannot remember the place where I read that the HP was his improvement but they did have him saying that. That was the question in my mind because the 1911 is THE MOST COPIED gun in history. IMHO.
I guess the things REX mentioned would be the key.
As always some good insight and thought from TFL.
Thanks guys.
sks
------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
Browning did die while designing the HP, most of the work was done by an FN engineer by the name of Diudome Saive. (I think I spelled his first name wrong though). This was the same man who went on to design the FAL.
To my understanding FN liked to use Brownings name on the gun because that would sell more of them.
To my understanding FN liked to use Brownings name on the gun because that would sell more of them.
DocHolliday
New member
sks:
On cable TV's 'The History Channel'in a recent series entitled 'Tales of the Gun' the same comment was repeated.
However no one mentioned from what source that statement came.
Did JMB write a letter to that effect, say it in casual conversation, or is this merely an ancient urban legend founded on advertising hype?
On cable TV's 'The History Channel'in a recent series entitled 'Tales of the Gun' the same comment was repeated.
However no one mentioned from what source that statement came.
Did JMB write a letter to that effect, say it in casual conversation, or is this merely an ancient urban legend founded on advertising hype?
got news for ya, the old hp was done finished
and sat sat in a desk for twenty years before old john mose released the design for sale to the general public.in fact he kikked himself in the ass because he said i shouldve released it sooner but i felt the public wasnt ready for it yet. the design wasnt modified by fn , just licenced to make them thats it. by the way me n ol john mose have the same b,day. ive heavily researched him.
and sat sat in a desk for twenty years before old john mose released the design for sale to the general public.in fact he kikked himself in the ass because he said i shouldve released it sooner but i felt the public wasnt ready for it yet. the design wasnt modified by fn , just licenced to make them thats it. by the way me n ol john mose have the same b,day. ive heavily researched him.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I traded into a nearly new HP around 1980. Removing the magazine disconnect, and doing a bit of "cleanup" on the sear made it a sweet shooter. IIRC, it was JMB's decision to omit the grip safety...
I still prefer the fit and feel of the 1911, for my particular hand. Stipulating reliability, I'll always recommend as "the best pistol", the one with which YOU shoot best.
FWIW, Art
I still prefer the fit and feel of the 1911, for my particular hand. Stipulating reliability, I'll always recommend as "the best pistol", the one with which YOU shoot best.
FWIW, Art
I guess we'll never know as to whether JMB said those words or not. I've seen the quote in a couple of publications (don't ask me which ones) but nothing that stands as official.
Basically you've answered my question as to what the changes were in the grip safety and extractor.
As to which one, 1911 or HP is the most copied, there is probably no way to ever find that out but it does say something for the two most copied designs, without question, are from the same man. As well as the BAR and his machine guns.
------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
Basically you've answered my question as to what the changes were in the grip safety and extractor.
As to which one, 1911 or HP is the most copied, there is probably no way to ever find that out but it does say something for the two most copied designs, without question, are from the same man. As well as the BAR and his machine guns.
------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
I guess we'll never know as to whether JMB said those words or not. I've seen the quote in a couple of publications (don't ask me which ones) but nothing that stands as official.
Basically you've answered my question as to what the changes were in the grip safety and extractor.
As to which one, 1911 or HP is the most copied, there is probably no way to ever find that out but it does say something for the two most copied designs, without question, are from the same man. As well as the BAR and his machine guns.
Again, thanks to the TFLers for the insight and for taking the time to share it.
regards,
sks
------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
Basically you've answered my question as to what the changes were in the grip safety and extractor.
As to which one, 1911 or HP is the most copied, there is probably no way to ever find that out but it does say something for the two most copied designs, without question, are from the same man. As well as the BAR and his machine guns.
Again, thanks to the TFLers for the insight and for taking the time to share it.
regards,
sks
------------------
The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
John Browning was one of the most versitile firearms makers, which made him one of the best. I dont think that the Hi-Power fixed mitakes in the 1911. Both guns have their high points(very high points actually).
[This message has been edited by MrBlonde (edited July 05, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by MrBlonde (edited July 05, 2000).]