Is it true that the no new 1911s were produced for the military for general use (excluding special units) since 1945 or so? If this is true it means that everybody who was in Korea and Vietnam and various and sundry conflicts until the Beretta was introduced were using WWII era guns-- quite successfully. But I don't know if this is true.
1911 Longevity
- Thread starter doctorj
- Start date
CastleBravo
New member
It is true, but the guns were rebuilt multiple times over the decades.
The "newest" pistols were built in 1945 but as mentioned may have been rebuilt a number of times. The pistols at training units got the most use - some kept up well, others not, depending on the unit. Most officers and some Armor crewmen qualified with a .45.
Each line unit in the Army has a "TO&E" - Table of Organization and Equipment. This says, for example, that the Battalion Commander is issued a .45. while his driver might be issued an M16. I was in a Cav Squadron and tank drivers were issued M3A1's - "Greaseguns."
As a Cav Platoon Leader, I was technically issued an M16, and that's what I qualified with. Am Armore Platoon Leader was issued a .45. But because of paymaster and Border Camp duties, I was eventually issued a .45 as well. I don't remember anything about it - we'd do function checks and if something was busted, it got fixed as parts wee abundant. I bought my own .45 so that if the flag dropped I would have a weapon that might actually hit something I pointed it at.
The .45 round is relatively low velocity and apparently relatively low pressure as well. Magazines have tested new M1911 clones for 10,000 rounds, with few malfunctions. One magazine tested a SIG P220 (a modern, double-action .45 very popular in Ft. Bragg, NC) for 10,000 rapid fire - as fast as they could shoot it, subject to some cleaning. They broke a part (that SIG recommends replacing every 5,000 rounds) and after cleaning it shot tighter groups (1.9" at 25 yards) than it did when new (2.1"). So it seems that .45 ACP pistols of all types last a long time. I've heard of range rental SIGs with 30,000 rounds through them.
Each line unit in the Army has a "TO&E" - Table of Organization and Equipment. This says, for example, that the Battalion Commander is issued a .45. while his driver might be issued an M16. I was in a Cav Squadron and tank drivers were issued M3A1's - "Greaseguns."
As a Cav Platoon Leader, I was technically issued an M16, and that's what I qualified with. Am Armore Platoon Leader was issued a .45. But because of paymaster and Border Camp duties, I was eventually issued a .45 as well. I don't remember anything about it - we'd do function checks and if something was busted, it got fixed as parts wee abundant. I bought my own .45 so that if the flag dropped I would have a weapon that might actually hit something I pointed it at.
The .45 round is relatively low velocity and apparently relatively low pressure as well. Magazines have tested new M1911 clones for 10,000 rounds, with few malfunctions. One magazine tested a SIG P220 (a modern, double-action .45 very popular in Ft. Bragg, NC) for 10,000 rapid fire - as fast as they could shoot it, subject to some cleaning. They broke a part (that SIG recommends replacing every 5,000 rounds) and after cleaning it shot tighter groups (1.9" at 25 yards) than it did when new (2.1"). So it seems that .45 ACP pistols of all types last a long time. I've heard of range rental SIGs with 30,000 rounds through them.
Probably not. The M9 is an okay, but not ideal service pistol. It will get the job done, but it will never be considered anything special. It's sort of like the M3 Grease Gun of WW2 fame, which made its mark in the annals of US martial arms but there weren't too many people writing books about it afterward.
In my humble opinion, I think the Beretta is a MUCH nicer weapon than the 1911-A1. I have plenty of experience with both, as I was issued a 1911-A1 in the National guard when I first started, but then we transitioned to the Beretta. I have owned three examples of 1911's... two springfields and one colt... NONE would reliably feed, even with hardball. I have never experienced any failures of any type with any of my Berettas, and I own three. Don't get me wrong, I have always liked the lines of the 1911-A1 and will probably give one another chance sometime, but for defending my family or myself, I'll take the proven reliability of the Beretta.
Pat Brophy
P.S. This whole Beretta bashing thing reminds me of all the controversy that was around during the adoption of the M-16. It has proven to be an excellent weapon, Even if it did have teething problems.
Pat Brophy
P.S. This whole Beretta bashing thing reminds me of all the controversy that was around during the adoption of the M-16. It has proven to be an excellent weapon, Even if it did have teething problems.
If you owned two Springfields and a Colt, and none of them would even feed ball, then either you're really unlucky or you bought some really crappy magazines! Even a 1911 that needs a throat job should still feed ball 100% out of the box.
I have two Berettas, and neither have ever malfunctioned. That is probably the design's stong point. However I rarely ever take them anywhere but to the range, simply because they are too %@# big and fat to be worth toting a 9mm around.
I have two Berettas, and neither have ever malfunctioned. That is probably the design's stong point. However I rarely ever take them anywhere but to the range, simply because they are too %@# big and fat to be worth toting a 9mm around.
All my 1911-A1 pistols (2 springfields, and one colt) were used with the magazines they came with from the factory. I believe factory issued magazines should work best in the guns they came with. In my humble opinion, something is wrong if you spend 500.00+ for a handgun, and then have to spend more money on aftermarket magazines to make it work.
Pat Brophy
Pat Brophy
Welcome to the wonderful world of 1911s. I usually throw away the mags that come with the pistols. Neither of the mags that came with two new Colts I bought worked reliably. Nor did the Kimber mag I have. 20 years ago Colt mags were the best-made out there, but if you compare a new one to those you'll notice the new ones are made from very thin metal.