1911 Hammer down?

N

Nightcrawler

New member
Saw this on Teevee. Hannibal Smith picked up a 1911, & chambered a round. He then put his thumb on the hammer, sqeezed the trigger, and gently lowered the hammer. Curious, I tried this on my 1911. Turns out that unless the hammer whacks the firing pin, it won't protrude into the primer and set off the cartridge.

...however...

It seems to me that should you drop your 1911 with its hammer down/round chambered, and it happens to land on the hammer spur, there might be enough kinetic energy transferred to set that sucker off. Either way, I won't be carrying a 1911 like that. It'll either be locked and cocked, saftey on, or without a round chambered. Probably the latter, as this is a low crime area and there really aren't too many dark alleys where you can get jumped. Sometimes living in small towns is nice...
 
The manual for my Colt 1991A1 states that the gun should NEVER be carried with the hammer down on a live round. I figure if the manufacturer is that emphatic about it, it's good enough for me.
 
The A-Team and their shooting

I always figured that maybe if they'd actually *unfold* the stock and aim their weapons, they'd hit their targets...LOL I guess back in the '80s the Networks wanted to make a family action show, without too much violence. Either way, the A-Team is a fun show to watch, even if they can't aim. :)
 
Carrying a chambered round with the hammer down is called Condition 2.

Condition 1: round chambered, cocked & locked
Condition 2: round chambered, hammer down
Condition 3: no round chambered, but loaded mag in place.

For condition 2, you obviously have to cock the gun to fire it. An inertia firing pin safety will keep the gun from going off if you drop it on the hammer. Big drawback for condition 2 is that you have to lower the hammer on a live round; if it slips while you do this, KABOOOM!

Condition 2 is probably the LEAST safe mode of carrying a 1911. It was designed to be carried in condition 1.
 
I used to carry mine with the hammer down on a live round. The only problem was, the design of the grip safety made it hard to reach up and cock it quickly. Therefore, i switched to cocked and locked. It suits me fine like that for open carry, but if I am concealing it, I take a different weapon with. I have had my body rub the safety off too many times.
 
its too bad the search mode is out: there was a long
discussion a few months ago about this...experiments were done, lol, some guy chambered a round with just the primer and started whackin' the hammer with a ball-pein to see how much force was required to cause an inertia driven AD...
ah, i guess you had to have been there!
there was even the comment that to be really, really comfortable, for those distressed about carrying cocked and locked, one should keep the gun with the slide locked back, a magazine in one pocket, and eight rounds in the other...the procedure, upon threat to life and limb would be
-load magazine
-load gun
-put slide into battery...
ah, the good old days...

**cocked and locked with my Kimber Compact Aluminum**
or
**safety on DA with my Russian Makarov**
 
carrying the 1911 in condition 2 is only safe in a post-series 80 with the firing pin block

the only reason, that i can even conceive of, for a condition 2 carry is if you use a lou alessi or ken null shoulder rig with the pull-through retention snap in the trigger guard. the concern is that the thumb safety will slip off in the holster, the grip safety will be depressed as you take your shooting grip and the trigger will trip on the snap.

personally i just carry behind my hip, safety on without a thumb strap...its worked for years
 
I can't say that I'm a fan of carrying condition 2. If you cock with your strong thumb, then while cocking you have a very weak grip on the gun. A beavertail safety makes it harder to reach the hammer to cock it. And it seems rather fumble-prone to me. The last thing I want to do is to add extra steps that I'll need to do if I have to draw a gun.

Regarding having the safety wiped off, all I can say is that it's never happened to me. The holsters that I use have a leather piece which projects upwards to cover the rear of the slide and the frame near the safety. I don't know if it's just my guns, or holsters, or mode of carry, but I've never had my safety wiped off.

M1911
 
I have had my safety swiped off. Interestingly enough, it only has happened to me with one Bianchi holster I own that has a thumb break. In an open top holster like my Galco Royal Guard, the safety stays wherever I put it.

It seems ironic that the added measure of the tumb break causes the safety to be disengaged but that's exactly what happened to me repeatedly. It made me retire the Bianchi.

The Captain
 
The potential danger from Condition 2 carry is not that the gun will fall on the hammer (which is very unlikely to set off a round) but on the muzzle, where the inertia of the firing pin will cause it to move forward when the gun stops. The latter condition is much more likely to discharge a round than a blow to the hammer. That is the real reason for the Series 80 firing pin block.

Jim
 
The best way to carry a 1911 is cocked and locked.Hammer down on an empty chamber is faster than a lot of people think, but takes two hands.I usually carry condition 1. sometimes condition 2. Now don't get me wrong I am not recomending this, but I have carried in condition 2 and I am quit confortable with it,However I would only do this with a gun that has the old spur hammer,not the commander hammer so popular these days.This was because I am left handed and on ocasion I have needed to carry a 1911 that did not have an Ambi-safety installed on it.Also I have been shooting 1911s for many years so I have tried about everything and practiced about everything.Also there are methods to use to safetly lower the hammer on a loaded chamber.Now having said this I am stating again that I am not recomending this,I am just saying I have done it this way in the past but only because I am left handed and when using a gun without the benefit of an Ambi-safety.I will also say this all of my 45's have Ambi-safeties on them now so I have no reason to carry in Condition 2 at this time.If you are not confortable carrying cocked and locked than you should buy a different kind of gun for carry.
 
Nevada Fitch said "If you are not confortable carrying cocked and locked than you should buy a different kind of gun to carry."

Amen to that. I'm quite comfortable carrying condition 1. But if someone isn't comfortable carrying cocked and locked, there are plenty of other action types to choose from (DA/SA, DAO, striker-fired) and plenty of accurate, reliable guns.

M1911
 
If one carries with the hammer down on a live round, they will be bypassing all three safeties on the pistol(thumb safety, grip safety and half cock notch) and you'll have to violate one of the four rules of safe gun handling(don't put finger into trigger until ready to shoot).

I think you can see how that is a bad idea. Like you said either go cocked and lock or go condition 3. I don't understand why anyone would go with condition 2. It is neither faster nor safer than con 1 and it's definitely more dangerous than con 3. Anyone who spouts off that con 2 is safer than con 1 has obviously not study the manual of arms for single action pistols and doesn't care to learn
 
We all must make a personal assessment of the odds of being threatened in a given situation. I weigh the potential danger and odds of an accidental trigger pull and discharge against the odds of being forced to defend myself in a given situation and make my carry weapon and mode of carry decision based upon this calculation.

More often than not, this equals a handgun with no round in the chamber. In most circumstances I will take my chances with a two handed slide rack. If conditions seem to become more threatening- let's say I have to stop for gas somewhere I would not normally choose to- maybe that is time to chamber a round for that brief period of time. It is all about being tuned in with your surroundings.

I gather from the tone of many "cocked and locked only" posters that I would arm myself with my AR-15 locked and loaded if I felt similarly threatened.

Having said that, I would gladly sit in a movie theater surrounded by TFL'ers with cocked and locked weapons in complete comfort and safety.

Just don't say I am "unarmed" and "bad guy meat" because I will probably have to chamber a round before I fire in defense. I actually do it very quickly and very well.

Regards,

Dave
 
Jim Keenan is right, it's the blow to the muzzle that's more likely to set off a round. That's why I only carry Series 80 Colts.

Try drawing the gun and cocking it on the way up. A few tries will convince you it's not the way to go. Make sure the gun is unloaded and put something on the floor to catch the gun when you drop it. Something large, it's possible to toss the gun several feet with this techique. Seriously, some old timers used to carry in condition 2. They had the large target hammers put on their guns to aid in cocking. BUT, back then there were few good double action autos to pick from like there are now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top