Which is best for performance and reliability, in a 1911 Government Model .45, the standard short guide rod, or the full length? All of my Colt full size Government models came standard with the short plunger guide. After only a couple of hundred rounds the recoil spring is curved or bent, leading me to believe that it is flopping around and kinking when cycling. This happens when using 16lb., 17lb. and 18.5lb springs. Accrding to Colt, and some gun smiths I have spoken to, this is normal and it should be left alone. I have tried full length drop in guide rods, which I sometimes use. Many custom and competition .45s come with the full length guide rod. The 1911 government has been around for close to a century now, and has proven itself in several wars and conflicts, with the short guide rod. Which is best for long term use and reliability, the full length, or the short G.I. guide in the full size .45?
1911 F.l. Guide Rod Or No Guide Rod
- Thread starter MR.G
- Start date
1911A1 fan
New member
MRG I dont think it makes a bit of differance the full length guide rods are great making money for the parts people. If the gun comes with a full length guide I'll leave in place but I would not spend money for one.
Dfariswheel
New member
1911A1's got it nailed. This is a matter of personal desire. Most custom 'smith's offer the rods because their customers think they have to have them. It seems to be this decades 1911 fad.
1911's seem to work fine with them and fine without. Without does make disassembly easier.
1911's seem to work fine with them and fine without. Without does make disassembly easier.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
My new SA Loaded Stainless has the two-piece full-length guide rod. I won't yank it out or anything, since the gun works fine, but I wouldn't have an issue with a standard-length one-piece guide rod either.
The one thing I find mildly annoying about the full-length guid rod is the fact that you need a tool to field-strip your pistol.
The one thing I find mildly annoying about the full-length guid rod is the fact that you need a tool to field-strip your pistol.
I will simply repeat what I have said before. Full length guide rods aid in extraction - the extraction of money from your pocket into the pocket of the maker of the full length guide rod.
Otherwise, like convex magazine followers, they seem like they should be better, but in fact serve no purpose.
Jim
Otherwise, like convex magazine followers, they seem like they should be better, but in fact serve no purpose.
Jim
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
When did FL guide rods become a requirement?
I've been wracking my brain, trying to recall when I first saw full length guide rods offered as a regular, drop-in accessory. I tend to think it was in the late 1980s. Can any old IPSC shooter help on this? Art Eatman? Anyone?
Anyway, as you mentioned, the Browning-designed pistols have done quite well without 'em for nigh onto a hundred years. How many 1911 and 1911A1 pistols were used by the military, cops and private individuals with the old style?
I was active in IPSC competition in local, state and national (Heck, I guess international, for that matter) for several years. I dare say I've been present when some millions of rounds were shot in 1911s and Browning High Powers. I've seen quite a few malfunctions of various kinds, but never, not even once, one attributable to a kinked recoil spring.
I've personally carried some variant of the 1911 regularly since the mid-sixties, and never felt the need. I believe the FLGR simply adds unnecessary complication. Remember Murphy's Law!
One caution, though: Shun the two-piece like the plague! When one of those becomes disassembled during firing, things become very gnarled.
Best regards,
Johnny
I've been wracking my brain, trying to recall when I first saw full length guide rods offered as a regular, drop-in accessory. I tend to think it was in the late 1980s. Can any old IPSC shooter help on this? Art Eatman? Anyone?
Anyway, as you mentioned, the Browning-designed pistols have done quite well without 'em for nigh onto a hundred years. How many 1911 and 1911A1 pistols were used by the military, cops and private individuals with the old style?
I was active in IPSC competition in local, state and national (Heck, I guess international, for that matter) for several years. I dare say I've been present when some millions of rounds were shot in 1911s and Browning High Powers. I've seen quite a few malfunctions of various kinds, but never, not even once, one attributable to a kinked recoil spring.
I've personally carried some variant of the 1911 regularly since the mid-sixties, and never felt the need. I believe the FLGR simply adds unnecessary complication. Remember Murphy's Law!
One caution, though: Shun the two-piece like the plague! When one of those becomes disassembled during firing, things become very gnarled.
Best regards,
Johnny
MR.G - Jim Keenan has it right. Their primary purpose is to sell. I also don’t think the one-piece guide rods do any real harm, but they do make it a bit harder to fieldstrip a 1911.
Johnny - I seem to remember first seeing them in IPSC around 1982-3.
For some odd reason though, when hand cycling, the FLGR seems to make it feel smoother.
Johnny - I seem to remember first seeing them in IPSC around 1982-3.
For some odd reason though, when hand cycling, the FLGR seems to make it feel smoother.
Jim, it's a pleasure to have you here at TFL.
A lot of aftermarket products are "gimmick" based and are aimed at those who enter into the gadget wars. Slug gun folks and competition shooters are no different. Some of the benefits are largely imaginery and largely cosmetic. For instance, how often does one use an ambidextrious slide release or safety? Regarding the former, how may release the slide by "racking" instead? Like Jim says, helps in extraction.
A lot of aftermarket products are "gimmick" based and are aimed at those who enter into the gadget wars. Slug gun folks and competition shooters are no different. Some of the benefits are largely imaginery and largely cosmetic. For instance, how often does one use an ambidextrious slide release or safety? Regarding the former, how may release the slide by "racking" instead? Like Jim says, helps in extraction.
lonegunman
New member
I agree with the majority -- full length guide rods serve no useful purpose.
They do make it impossible to chamber a round using a one-handed technique though.
Several years ago, when I was young and foolish, I bought one and put it in a Colt LW Commander that was already functioning at 100% reliable. Guess what happened? It stayed 100%.
They do make it impossible to chamber a round using a one-handed technique though.
Several years ago, when I was young and foolish, I bought one and put it in a Colt LW Commander that was already functioning at 100% reliable. Guess what happened? It stayed 100%.
I noticed a difference when I put a SS guide rod in my G17, so when I got my Colt, I bought one 1st thing. It has been 100% reliable since day one. But, lately I've been using it w/ standard guide rod. You know, in 250 rounds, I've noticed NO DIFFERENCE. Oh well...you live, you learn.
I put the Wilson "Group Gripper" full length guide rod in my Norinco a few years ago and it greatly increased the accuracy of the gun. Because of the guide rod? No, because of a better link fit.
The US Army Marksmanship team has used both short and full length guide rods and has found no significant difference in either accuracy or reliability.
If you like them go for it, but don't expcet it to really change your gun.
The US Army Marksmanship team has used both short and full length guide rods and has found no significant difference in either accuracy or reliability.
If you like them go for it, but don't expcet it to really change your gun.
when I was trying the .45 super load I put a 2 piece rod plus shok
buff pads, and 24 pound spring for recoil and one in firing pin.
it worked but the gun still got beat so I quit Super loads, the gun
isn't made for mag loads.I also tried rods on old Ballister Molinas
that shaked like a rattle, but with rod and new springs it made the gun work, tighter lock up, and more reliable, before it would
stove pipe every other round, who knows if it really helped or the gun farted and fixed itself?
buff pads, and 24 pound spring for recoil and one in firing pin.
it worked but the gun still got beat so I quit Super loads, the gun
isn't made for mag loads.I also tried rods on old Ballister Molinas
that shaked like a rattle, but with rod and new springs it made the gun work, tighter lock up, and more reliable, before it would
stove pipe every other round, who knows if it really helped or the gun farted and fixed itself?
Don't buy one
Many would argue that they don't belong on a fighting pistol. If you have a feature that will not allow you to clear malfunctions one handed or makes it impossible to strip the gun without tools, you've got a game gun, not a fighting pistol. My finest pistols, including a Vickers I'm very fond of, don't come with FLGR.
Bob
Many would argue that they don't belong on a fighting pistol. If you have a feature that will not allow you to clear malfunctions one handed or makes it impossible to strip the gun without tools, you've got a game gun, not a fighting pistol. My finest pistols, including a Vickers I'm very fond of, don't come with FLGR.
Bob
Shok-Buff
I have never posted anything here before but I saw one interesting comment in this discussion. I agree with Johnny about the full length guide rods, waste of money. I switched from carrying and shooting revolvers in 1981 and have been using 1911's since then and I've never seen a malfunction due to a bent or crimped spring. I did hear about a malfunction occur on a police firing range about a year ago that was caused by a shok-buff tearing into shreds and locking the pistol up. Since then our firearms instructor discourages any of us who carry 1911's from using the shok-buffs.
I have never posted anything here before but I saw one interesting comment in this discussion. I agree with Johnny about the full length guide rods, waste of money. I switched from carrying and shooting revolvers in 1981 and have been using 1911's since then and I've never seen a malfunction due to a bent or crimped spring. I did hear about a malfunction occur on a police firing range about a year ago that was caused by a shok-buff tearing into shreds and locking the pistol up. Since then our firearms instructor discourages any of us who carry 1911's from using the shok-buffs.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Some people think FLGRs help with the cycling of the gun, keeping their springs working better and for longer, and maybe affect the reliability of the gun. I change my springs by 2000 rounds and so spring longevity has never been an issue and I have not noticed any difference in gun function when I had a FLGR versus having a short one.
As far as serving no useful purpose, I would disagree. Part of the reason they started showing up in IPSC matches is because the FLGR adds weight to the muzzle end of the gun and that helps to dampen muzzle flip, thereby allowing quicker follow-up shots. Gun Tests did an article on this in 1996 and examined three types of tungsten FLGRs. The best performed was a Wilson 5 oz guide rod (not made any more) that knocked something like 35% off of the follow-up shot time. That sounds really significant until you realize that if your follow-up times are 0.30 seconds, then you have only decreased your time by a tenth.
Stainless steel guide rods weigh about 1.6 oz., so my follow-up times won't be anything close to losing 35%, but I do like the way the gun handles with the FLGR and it really does seem to take some of the zing out of the recoil.
As far as serving no useful purpose, I would disagree. Part of the reason they started showing up in IPSC matches is because the FLGR adds weight to the muzzle end of the gun and that helps to dampen muzzle flip, thereby allowing quicker follow-up shots. Gun Tests did an article on this in 1996 and examined three types of tungsten FLGRs. The best performed was a Wilson 5 oz guide rod (not made any more) that knocked something like 35% off of the follow-up shot time. That sounds really significant until you realize that if your follow-up times are 0.30 seconds, then you have only decreased your time by a tenth.
Stainless steel guide rods weigh about 1.6 oz., so my follow-up times won't be anything close to losing 35%, but I do like the way the gun handles with the FLGR and it really does seem to take some of the zing out of the recoil.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Shok Buffs
Walt2--
I actually sort of like the Wilson Shok-Buffs--They must be changed every few thousand rounds, true--but they add no complication, and onlyu come into play at the very far end of slide travel. Just decreases impact of slide against frame.
I don't see exactly how one tearing up would lock things up, but I agree they need regular inspection, each time the pistol is disassembled for cleaning.
DNSpy - - Okay, I grant that the additional weight up front might help control muzzle flip. I've never had any difficultly with the recoil of a full weight 1911-type with standard power (hard ball equivalent) loads. I imagine the weight issue kind of falls into the same category as the need for a compensator. Some like 'em, some don't.
Regards,
Johnny
Walt2--
I actually sort of like the Wilson Shok-Buffs--They must be changed every few thousand rounds, true--but they add no complication, and onlyu come into play at the very far end of slide travel. Just decreases impact of slide against frame.
I don't see exactly how one tearing up would lock things up, but I agree they need regular inspection, each time the pistol is disassembled for cleaning.
DNSpy - - Okay, I grant that the additional weight up front might help control muzzle flip. I've never had any difficultly with the recoil of a full weight 1911-type with standard power (hard ball equivalent) loads. I imagine the weight issue kind of falls into the same category as the need for a compensator. Some like 'em, some don't.
Regards,
Johnny