1911 clones - need some advice

L

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
Took a look at a Colt, Kimber & SA today - all entry level .45s

I really do know next to nothing about the 1911 platform, or the pluses/minuses of any of the flavors out there. I do CCW a BHP 9mm - FWIW. I've shot a 1911 .45 maybe three times.

If things go as planned ( :rolleyes: ;) ) I'll get an entry level 1911 platform, get the dies/reload, etc. + buy the .460 Roland barrel kit. Nice to have the flexibility, I'd think.

Each of the above I handled today appeared to be "good enough" for an entrylevel platform for further tweaking so I'll end up with want I care to have - a dependable & long-lasting shooter, & all were (at this shop - no, haven't checked around yet) right in the high $500s to low $600

Coupla questions ....

Do they all have fully supported chambers & does that even matter for the .460 upgrade? (seems a barrel switch will give that where it's needed)

Dealer guy at the counter says the SA is the stronger of the bunch. "Another" was investment cast, where the SA is milled out of "solid steel." Seems if the structural integrity of the casting is sound, subsequent machining's not gonna be any great shakes regards strength ....

Anything else you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

Newby here on this one & appreciate whatever.

Just as soon not see "SA's junk - get a Kimber"-stuff unless it matters other than personal preference. That could matter & I'd like to know why.

Thanks, folks.
 
I can't answer all your questions, but both Kimber and SA have forged slides and frames (Not sure abt SA's aluminum frames, but Kimber's alum frames are forged).

Castings are "solid steel", just not forged. Castings can be quite strong - like Ruger's big bore Super Redhawks, for example. More likely to have hidden flaws in cheap castings than in forgings, but not so much an issue in well-made guns.

Kimber's have some MIM parts, which some don't like, but mostly they seem to hold up well.

SA used to make a 2-piece barrel, but I heard somewhere that the "loaded" versions have a 1 piece.

Have a Kimber myself and like it very much. Good luck.
 
I've got 3 Kimbers and 1 Springfield. The Springfield had a lot more obvious tooling marks plus a rather inaccurate 2-piece barrel. The profile of the Springfield dust cover is off, so that it won't fit into many 1911 Kydex holsters. The profile of the front strap is much fuller as well, making it less comfortable in my hand than my Kimbers. Wilson Combat uses the same frames as Kimber, so I wouldn't worry about its strength.

I'd buy another Kimber. I wouldn't buy another Springfield. YMMV.

M1911
 
Of the three, my preference would be the Colt. They also have forged slides and frames, plus I simply prefer the look and feel. However, any one of them will do just fine for you. They are the top three 1911 manufacturers.
 
All the makers you listed make some pretty good guns (and a few bad ones). That's the point of mass-produced manufacturing. Instead of getting a low-end gun and then having it buffed up, you might want to look at an STI Trojan for a couple of hundred more. It's basically hand fitted and uses high-end parts so you probably won't need to do anything but shoot it. As somebody once said: "The fit on STI slides and frames is about like a bank vault." And, the guns don't get out unless they are right.
 
bountyh brings up another point = is there another manufacturer I should be looking at for my intended purposes?

A quick "gee whiz!" look is as far as I've been on this "project." The three mentioned were the only mfgers available for today's "look-see."

I want a "decent enough" basic 1911 .45 package that I can add to later, as I see fit. (No thanks for Glocks, etc. as I do want the .460R package as a drop-in & all but immediately & frankly, Glocks don't ring any bells for me) .... extra mods will likely be done by me (not an idiot, but not a 'smith either), so ease of add-ons, etc. should be taken into account - it's a #1, a basic package, "decent enough" .45 1911 platform, with potential of further "what ever I want to do" customizing, & #2 I do want that .460R drop-in right off the bat.

"Customizing" will be done to an extent that I'll eventually want an adustable trigger, adjustable sights (my pref for whatever) & grips - pretty much the basics to make a very shootable & personalized platform - accurate & reliable.

(As an aside & which has nothing to do with this topic, I still do not get the grip safety on a 1911 (other than mere tradition) - the BHP doesn't have one & I don't recall hearing of many shooting themselves due to to the lack of that darned grip safety. Maybe it's just me & my being unfamiliar with a 1911 platform, but WTx? Why even bother with the darned thing ... ? & what possible benny could it provide?

Please, let's not get sidetracked on that - I've already asked the question here & got no response that satisfies. ;) )
 
Ahh yes, the age old question...

Soon after one finds the answer to... "What is the meaning of life", the next question is, invariably, "Which is better Springfield, Kimber, or Colt?"

Well for me, I would say its between Colt and Kimber.

I think the idea that Springfield is stronger than either of these is ridiculous, and I feel is based strictly on that gunshop guys opinion. In fact, a couple months ago, someone had photos of here of a broken Springfield slide.

Finish is better on basic Colt and Kimber guns. Less tool marks. Less sharp edges. The beavertail on Springfields hurts my hand after a few hundred rounds.

Accuracy and reliablity will be about the same for all 3.
 
Thak you, lonegunman, for the "SA is stronger = nuts!" quote.

Nothing I know says that an investment cast is any less strong than a forged/milled or straight-milled part. I do feel that many of the "truths" spoke at "the shops" is due to more of what they make in mark-up & less to do with actualities - I'm asking because I'm a serious "no nothing" regards 1911s & want to know.

Simple as that. Opinions & facts all welcome, but I'd like to stay out of the "says you!" realm. We're makin' the grade so far. ;)

Never heard of the "two-piece" barrel - anyone care to elaborate. Doesn't sound condusive to anything I'd care to have .... & I do want a serious .45 ACP platform initialy, the .460R is a secondary, but obvious end result - I want to have both, & from the same platform.

Keep it comin' - a serious "newby" that wants/needs some serious discussion on the merits of all 1911 platforms ...

& I thank you (& hearty TFL-thanks for providing the means .... )
 
I'd get the Kimber Custom II because I think it offers more gun for the money than Colt and feels better in my hand than the Springfield. You may feel differently.
 
May be another one of those "opinion" things that I will decide on my own ...

"Feel" is too subjective/personal preference-thing, for me in this thread - I'm being selfish. ;)

Would very much apreciate a "why's this one better" than a "feels better."

Thanks though ...
 
IMO, the 1911 is the easiest handgun on which to learn to be a do-it-yourselfer. I tend to look for Series 70 and older, and the clunkier the better. I tend to not care much about how nicely finished a "usin' gun" is.

I gave $400 for a pretty nice Sistema. It has a surprisingly good trigger, and functioned as it should have with a couple of quick magazines' worth of ball ammo through it. (For those who aren't familiar with them, these are U.S.-made by Colt, sold into South America, and recently brought back and rebuilt/refinished.)

As for the grip safety, I've found the easiest way to disable the fool thing is to take a small bit of tinfoil and lower the hammer-spring housing just enough to "install" it. :)

Art
 
Actually the Sistema's were produced in Argentina on Colt equipment. They replaced the US Colts Argentina had been importing. Nice gun either way.
 
labgrade, the Kimber really DOES feel better in your hand than the SA. And the reason is the profile of the front strap. The Kimber's front strap is more rounded than the Springfield's. Put them both side by side and look and feel. I'm having my gunsmith recontour the front strap of my SA.

M1911
 
As far as the supported chamber is concerned its really irrelevant with the 45ACP since it doesn’t really generate that high a pressure, its more of an issue with 40S&W, 10MM and 38Super Comp.

With regards to the brand of gun they all will work fine, just make sure there isn’t much play in the barrel when it starts to unlock. My personal preference is SV Infinity Single Stack but that’s a bit pricey +$1800.00 but well worth it since the parts finish and fit is second to none.

My question to you is what do you plan on using this gun for, Competition, Self Defense etc. Depending on your response I might be able to help.

DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas (Accuracy, Power, Speed)
 
Reagads finish = I really could care less - to an extent.

I've "beater guns" that'll out-shoot many "pristines." The proof is in the puddin', so to speak & I've never cared about a bit of "tool marks" - to a point.

Yup. I'd rather have a "pristine" shooter that I can beat up myself, but a gun's merely a tool to put a bullet where you want.

After that, I'd rather have one that's pretty, but much the same, as with a vehicle, a rod/reel combo, a PC, a knife, ... I'd much rather it do what I want rather than "be pretty."

I want functionality first - pretty's secondary.

& what "feels best" to you is as subjective as a "Chevy's better than a Ford." Sorry for being a jerk, but I get to decide. I will take your account/s into consideration though.

I'm wondering about functionality & durability for what I'm curious about.

Primary focus is a durable & upgradeable 1911 .45 ACP platform that will accomodate the .460 Roland drop in barrel with zip for probelms. It will be used for both & I want absolute reliability from each.

& figured as much for the .45ACP regards "supported" or not. Figure it's "good enough" as is & the .460R barrel is boosted where it's needed .....

Hope I'm not sounding like an a-hole, but I'd really hate to see some of this go to a "mine's better" thread.

Not what I'm asking.

I don't even know the right questions to ask about a 1911 platform. Handle with care. ;)

Mostly, y'all done good so far ..... appreciate it.
 
& to ryucasta specifically, I'd like a .45 1911 platform that I will feel comfortable doing the CCW-bit = utmost reliability,perhaps some non-serious comp-shooting (IDPA, IPSC - but I've max'd major with 9s/minor before, so no real biggie there).

I want a solid, reliable .45ACP platform that I can "grow into" as I see fit & that will accomodate that .460 Rolnad round/barrel drop-in immediately.

I will buy The Best mechanical platform that fits well in my hand & that I feel comfortable with - assuming it first fits the mechanical requirements.

Things like a two-pice barrel are the type things I've never heard of, or considered even existed, & would like to hear more of.

Ideally, I'd like to do an initial drop of low-to mid $600 as a starter platform, & work up from there as I desire to tweak it to what I think I need.
 
labgrade

"as subjective as a "Chevy's better than a Ford."

What's subjective about that??? :D Besides, everybody knows Dodge is best!!!


Kimber, then Colt, then anything but an S/A. ;)
 
I was under the impression that you were asking about supported chambers and brand x over Y. If thats not the case and you want to stay in the price range you mention any of those brands you mentioned should be fine. It's been my experience, that I usually have a gun built to my specifications. But then you go into a much higher cost threshold than you mentioned in your intial thread.

Hope you find whatever it is your looking for.
 
Nope, ryucasta. Initial premise is for an entry level 1911 .45ACP platform that can accept the .460R drop-in barrel without mods, but will accept any of the trick 1911 customized stuff later.

Thought I made it clear then, but what I mean sometimes ain't what I said. Just ask The Wife.

Too, being an admitted ingnoramous about this platform, I may not have asked to question correctly. WhadIknow? ... That's why I started it off with "I'm an idiot. Tell me why." :p

I figured any .45ACP would have a chamber "supported enough" & that works for me. The question (actually an added thought) was reagrds the .460 Roland barrel & I figured it would be supported enough too, or really why botherhaving a "nifty, extra-special thingy that just blows up?"

Again. I may not know enough to ask the proper question.

Thanks for being gentle with The Fool O' The Day .... ;)
 
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