1911 7.62x25 Tokarev Conversion
- Thread starter akinswi
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
The rim diameter is essentially identical to the 9mm Parabellum, so you could use a 9mm slide. The problem is the overall length of the cartridge. 1911s are built around the .45 ACP cartridge, which has a C.O.A.L. of 1.275 inches. The 7.62x25 has a C.O.A.L. of 1.386 inches, so it's too long to fit into a 1911 magazine or magazine well.
A [very] remote possibility might be Armscor (Rock Island). They offer a 1911 chambered in .22 Magnum, which is also longer than .45 ACP. They make a special frame just for their .22 Magnum pistol. I don't know how close to the limit they make it, though. The nominal C.O.A.L. for .22 Magnum is 1.350 inches. That's still shorter than 1.386 inches. I don't know if the RIA .22 Magnum has enough space in the magazines to accommodate that extra .036 inches of length. I also don't know how difficult it would be to modify the .22 Magnum magazines to handle 7.62x25, and I also don't know if the larger grip on the RIA .22 magnum would fit your hand.
A [very] remote possibility might be Armscor (Rock Island). They offer a 1911 chambered in .22 Magnum, which is also longer than .45 ACP. They make a special frame just for their .22 Magnum pistol. I don't know how close to the limit they make it, though. The nominal C.O.A.L. for .22 Magnum is 1.350 inches. That's still shorter than 1.386 inches. I don't know if the RIA .22 Magnum has enough space in the magazines to accommodate that extra .036 inches of length. I also don't know how difficult it would be to modify the .22 Magnum magazines to handle 7.62x25, and I also don't know if the larger grip on the RIA .22 magnum would fit your hand.
Jim Watson
New member
Good news: There was a 1911 7.62 fad a while back, Numrich and J&G sold barrels.
Bad news: The round IS too long. A .38 Super magazine will hold 4 or 5 at a slant and work after a fashion.
More bad news: Slobovvian surplus has hard SMG primers, most conversions required stronger mainsprings... and lighter recoil springs.
Cheap fix: Deep seat and recrimp bullets. Hope pressures from reduced powder space aren't too high.
Real fix: Handload with flat pointed bullets and pistol primers.
But that loses the cheap surplus.
Bad news: The round IS too long. A .38 Super magazine will hold 4 or 5 at a slant and work after a fashion.
More bad news: Slobovvian surplus has hard SMG primers, most conversions required stronger mainsprings... and lighter recoil springs.
Cheap fix: Deep seat and recrimp bullets. Hope pressures from reduced powder space aren't too high.
Real fix: Handload with flat pointed bullets and pistol primers.
But that loses the cheap surplus.
Some information here;
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/converting-a-1911-to-7-62x25-tokarev/99440
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/converting-a-1911-to-7-62x25-tokarev/99440
Tang,
You are correct, When SOG was around I bought several thousands rounds from them it was mostly that hot bulgarian ammo I didnt shoot it much in my CZ52 but I shot alot of it in my TTC. I think PPU is the only company that makes it commercial now and maybe sellior&bellot as well.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Fascinating.74A95 said:
Curiosity led me to search for load data, to investigate the possibility of doing such a conversion and loading short enough to fit properly in .38 Super magazines. I can't find any load data for 7.62x25. Is there a source?
handloads:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/handloading-the-762x25-tokarev/374699
Hornady, Sierra, Vihtavouri and Lyman have load data.
You can load them shorter to fit in a 1911, and this requires reducing the charge, as you know. You will need to select bullets with short noses so the shoulder is not below the case mouth. I have done this. They work fine.
Suggested bullets are the Hornady XTPs and the Speer 110 grain JHP.
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Yes. The 30 Mauser is slightly lower pressure, so it will be fine.
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Unkl Chuck
New member
Somehow I missed this thread when it was fresh, but I'll jump in anyway. 7.62 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser are the same dimensions and are 'interchangeable'. Be aware that the Tok round is typically loaded to higher pressures than the Mauser round. There is much discussion on this topic elsewhere, but basically stay safe and use proper Mauser loads in your antique Mausers. Most Toks will handle the hotter loads. Be careful.
A cartridge the OP may want to consider is .30 Luger aka 7.65 X 21. A quick check showed a overall of 1.175". It would feed from a 9mm magazine. It came about because Georg Luger didn't want to use Mauser ammo in his pistol and then it became the parent of the 9mm Parabellum. Brass and dies are available, there is some load data available.
On occasion, I load and shoot each of the 3 rounds.
A cartridge the OP may want to consider is .30 Luger aka 7.65 X 21. A quick check showed a overall of 1.175". It would feed from a 9mm magazine. It came about because Georg Luger didn't want to use Mauser ammo in his pistol and then it became the parent of the 9mm Parabellum. Brass and dies are available, there is some load data available.
On occasion, I load and shoot each of the 3 rounds.
Jim Watson
New member
Ol Georg shortened the cartridge because his recoil spring was in the butt, unlike Borchardt and Mauser and the 25mm case would have made the grip too wide.