1903 A1 or A3 rifle

rebs

New member
Back in the mid to late 70's I bought a rifle in 30-06 cal. It was a sporterized rifle with nice wood stock.
Does anyone know if it would have been an A1 orA3 ? Also it had a recoil reducer or buffer in the stock, what would that have been ?
It was a sweet shooting and very accurate rifle. I now wish I had never sold it but financial times it necessary.
Are these rifles still available ?
 
The what is it part would be determined by when the arm was made.

I never had a sporterized one and never really wanted one. Mine are all still pretty much as issued.

You can find them a lot on Gun Broker and Guns America or possibly at a local gun show.
 
1903 Original rifle made 1903 (actually 1906 as deployed) until up in the 1920s.

1903 A1 Same as 1903 but with pistol grip "C" stock. Not a complete redo, there were always a lot of straight grip rifles around.

1903 A2 .30-06 barreled action as subcaliber device for artillery piece.

1903 A3 WWII version with receiver sight instead of "ladder" sight on barrel.
 
Are they a Mauser action ? What would be the recoil reducer of the mid to late 70's ? Also mine had a peep sight.
 
This is where a good picture or two would help considerably, additionally any and all markings on the rifle. My 03A3 Remington was originally released through the old DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship) program. The original billing was I believe $17. Thousands of these rifles were released to the public during the 60s and many were sporterized. Ironically today people are looking to restore those rifles. Anyway any pictures or markings information would help.

Ron
 
it's impossible to know. it was the 70s, springfields of all flavors were sold as surplus during that period. none of us have a picture or anything at all to go on.

as for the mauser question. no they are not a mauser, mausers are mausers. the 1903 was developed at a time when nearly all european nations were switching to mausers of one variety or another and the U.S. wanted to be taken as seriously as anyone else. they essentially built a rifle that shared a lot of features with the mausers of the world, while still containing a lot of the features of the Krags which were already in service, the end result was rifle that used a bolt/extractor similar to the mauser, with a bottom up magazine(again a mauserish feature but in no way invented by mauser) but with a decocker knob on the bolt, Krag style take down lever/mag disconnect switch, and a sight setup that was closer to the krag than the mauser 98.

Mauser did sue for copyright infingement and even won said lawsuit but with WWI going on at the time, and Mauser being a German company it is pretty obvious how much money Springfield paid them in restitution.
 
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no they are not a mauser, mausers are mausers.
No, the courts said they were a copy of the Mauser and infringed on the design patents, so any 1903 is a copy of a Mauser (dual front locking lugs, rear safety lug, staggered feed box magazine, firing pin capture safety, claw extractor). Courts said it was a copy and the US had to pay for patent infringement. During the war, the funds were impounded, and they are specifically waived in the Versailes Treaty.

At least the Brits, when they copied the Mauser, they chose one that the patents on it had expired (the Pattern 14 rifle is a copy of a 1890 Mauser patent).
 
You don't have to believe the court. They get stuff wrong, especially on technical subjects. That said, I think the Springfield '03 design was based on the Mauser.
 
No, the courts said they were a copy of the Mauser and infringed on the design patents,
actually to be specific the courts said that the extractor claws, stripper clips, and magazine infringed on a handful of mauser patents. not the entire rifle... so poopoo to you. :D

one might as well call glocks, springfield XDs, S&W M&Ps, FN Herstal FNS, Ruger SR series, and just about all other modern handguns Heckler and kochs because they made the first striker fired polymer pistols.
 
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With a recoil buffer, it was probably sportered after WWII, and thusly probably a 1903A3, but if the sights are at rear of receiver, it's an A3, if on the barrel forward of the chamber, it's an A1.

Lots of sportered rifles still around, just take a gander at the consignment rack at your local shops, or go on Gunbroker.
 
I wrote this a while back, but it seems to still be a topic of discussion, so here goes again:

"In any discussion of the Model 1903's origins, it is almost certain to be stated that it was copied from the Model 1898 Mauser. This is supposedly proven by the fact that the U.S. paid Mauser royalties on six patents which allegedly covered the Model 1898 Mauser. That is not true. All but one patent covered features that were used in previous Mauser rifles, notably the Model 1893 ("Spanish Mauser"), large quantities of which were captured from the Spanish. The one remaining patent covered a variation of the bolt sleeve lock, which was later used in the Model 1898 Mauser, but which Springfield did not use in the same way.

The patents, dates, and area of coverage are as follows:
No. 467,180 01/19/1892 Extractor
No. 477,671 06/28/1892 Extractor collar
No. 482,376 09/13/1892 Ammunition clip
No. 527,869 10/23/1894 Internal box magazine
No. 547,933 11/15/1895 Safety catch
No. 590,271 11/21/1897 Bolt sleeve lock

With the possible exception of the last, NONE of those patents covered features of the Model 1898 Mauser and there is no evidence in any of the archival records I have seen that the Springfield designers ever saw a Model 1898 Mauser or the U.S. patents covering its features. (References to the "Model 1898" in the ordnance records of the time invariably refer to the U.S. service rifle, the Model 1898 Krag, not to the Mauser.)

In a separate issue, the U.S. paid royalties to the German DWM company on pointed bullets, but that has no relationship to the design of the M1903 rifle.
Note that some of those U.S. patents were after the fact; rifles with the patented features had already appeared. That was not uncommon as patent attorneys and lawyers tried to keep up, and of course the date I gave is the date the patent was granted, not the date it was applied for.

Here are the features of the Model 1898 Mauser that were NOT in any previous model. All were patented in the U.S. by Mauser in 1896-1897, but Mauser claimed infringement only for the bolt sleeve lock. The other features were obviously not used in the Model 1903 and all were probably unknown to the Springfield designers.

1. The safety bolt lug locking into the bottom rear of the receiver. (The Springfield designers adapted the Krag safety lug to the new rifle, causing some problems further down the design path.)

2. The bolt sleeve lock, to prevent the bolt sleeve from turning when the bolt is opened, even if the safety is in the middle position. (The U.S. Model 1903 designers dealt with the same problem in a different manner, but the U.S. still paid royalties on the Mauser patent. This is the only Mauser Model 1898 feature on which royalties were paid.)

3. The undercut extractor cam, which tends to force the extractor to grip the case more firmly if the case sticks. (This keeps the extractor from jumping over the case rim if the pull is hard.)

4. The firing pin flanges that prevent the firing pin from reaching the primer if the firing pin breaks at the rear when the bolt is unlocked.

5. The inner receiver collar that provides an additional gas seal and also makes barrel installation much easier by eliminating the extractor cut in the barrel."

One other point needs discussion. The U.S. agreed voluntarily to make payments for the rights to Mauser's patents prior to WWI and the situation had long been settled when war broke out. The claims by DWM for the pointed bullet ammunition continued through the WWI period and were settled after the war when the U.S. agreed to make payments. But that was a separate issue, not related to the rifles.

Jim
 
Back in the mid to late 70's I bought a rifle in 30-06 cal. It was a sporterized rifle with nice wood stock

really tough to identify a rifle with just this for information.

Even tougher when you don't have the rifle to look at anymore.

Sort of like asking, "I bought a car in the late 70s, it had an 8cylinder engine and four wheels. Was it a Mustang, or a Corvette??"
 
Thank you for all the replies. I knew it was a long shot but I had to ask. It was a comfortable and accurate rifle to shoot. Wish I hadn't sold it but financial troubles made it necessary, my family comes first and I needed the money.
 
"...an A1 or A3?..." If it had the original rear sight, an A3's was a peep sight on the receiver. An A1's was a 'V' and blade on the barrel. However, a sporterised rifle may have had peeps put on. As mentioned, there's no way of telling 40 years on.
"... financial troubles made it necessary..." Happens. Don't have an issue 1911A1 anymore so a lawyer could get paid.
"...sub-caliber device for artillery piece..." And tank guns.
 
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