1898 Krag Carbine (even a blind squirrel...)

J

johnm1

New member
I wasn't sure if I should post this in the C&R section or here in the Bolt Action Rifle Section (edit: or you can get confused on what forum your in and post in C&R) Because it is a sporter i figured it would go best here.

So I have my Saturday morning gun store run. One of the places is a fiarly new storefron here in Mesa AZ. Mostly newer stuff but he has some older military firearms. Almost all of the time everything he has is well overpriced and I had never bought anything there for that reason. Eg. $400 Turk Mausers and $700 K31's.

Although my collection is somewhat 'eclectic' most of what I collect and shoot are older military rifles. I have never been one to appreciate sportered military rifles. Idon't object or dislike them. Just not my style. Same with pistols. Yet I bought a nicely re-blued Colt 1903 and now this. A very nicely done Krag 1898 Sporter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z9nn1217zw1dtpf/overall 1.jpeg?dl=0

Total re-blue but nicely done. Roll marks are in great shape. Blue is a really nice dark blue/black on the barrel and the receiver has a purplish hue to it

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gj85bqqwcd6gi10/purple 3.jpg?dl=0

The stock is purpose made and the work is quite good. Iwish I knew who's stock it was.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lp2x6vtmoymtdqt/right side 3 cutout.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8d8ukl6y0v3fg9u/butstock 1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5vlmq229qh938l/butstock 2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/06eeifoqfcosuv0/butstock 3.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yfmyu3ehy45sjfx/butstock 4.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pf7x0p5kyeipb8s/purple 1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w4h7x50ys2ijvxt/right side n.jpg?dl=0

One of the nice things is it came with a Redfield 75 KT no drill peep sight

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29rcwwnbqmhuxb5/sight 2 left.jpeg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g36mggzcz8zx56q/sight 3 top.jpeg?dl=0

The barrel is a true carbine barrel with the correct front sight base installed. The blade is a gold dot. (Sorry about the blurred picture but it is the best I have for now)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qex7yri9bz323gh/front sight n blur.jpeg?dl=0

One of the best parts is my cost was $300 plus tax. Now it is a sportered Krag with a new blue but the hard part is that it is almost certainly in the range of the 5000 1898 Krag Carbines. This one is seriealed 1319XX. And although the sideplate is drilled for a scope mount it can be replaced. There are no extra holes in either the receiver or the barrel and it could be brought back to its military configuration. I don't think it could possibly be financially 'worth it' to do so. I like the carbine just the way it is and it may well become my hunting rifle if it shoots as good as it looks.

So, even a blind squirrel can find an acorn once in a while.
 
Last edited:
Seriously nice find my friend,,,

Seriously nice find my friend,,,
I would have broke all quick-draw records getting my wallet out.

Aarond

.
 
I actually left the store for an hour to think it over. Once I found the cost of the no drill peep I delayed my Saturday afternoon nap. I actually asked the guy if there was any wiggle room on the price. There wasn't.

I'm looking at a Merit adjustable diopter to replace the hunting diopter that it came with. I'll test the carbine's accuracy with what I have. But if it is as accurate as it is good looking this will become my hunting rifle.
 
I have an 1898 rifle that i love to shoot. I took it to the Western Games a couple of years ago. I shot horribly with it. The rifle did fine.
 
I have a .30-40 Krag, but its not a Krag, its a Ruger! ;)

I have a Krag, but its not a .30-40! :D

And its one Krag that will spoil you for the others...

mfg date 1897. Three digit serial number. Caliber 6.5x55mm Swede.
I believe the rifle is Norwegian...:D
 
One caveat is to have the bolt looked at for cracks. On some other boards more knowledgeable Krag shooters have cautioned to look for cracks in the bolt, pointing even military ammunition was loaded too hot, and we don't know what reloads went through it.
 
Agreed Sig. I haven't inspected it yet as I have to remove the peep sight to remove the bolt. I suppose I have to do it tonight. I want to shoot it tomorrow. Work permitting.

44 - the Norweigan's are very nice. The odd ones are the Danish Krags. The loading gate open towards the front. I thought our boys in the Spanish American war were at a disadvantage by single loading.
 
According to historical legend, the troops liked the single loading on the Krag since they could keep the magazine topped up with five rounds.

I think the disadvantages of handling loose rounds, semi-smokeless powder, and non-flat trajectory outweighed a never-empty magazine. Teddy Roosevelt saw the deficiencies first-hand and mandated a new rifle system as soon as he became President in 1901.

Having said that, the Krag is one of my favorite US rifles.
 
According to historical legend, the troops liked the single loading on the Krag since they could keep the magazine topped up with five rounds.

I think the disadvantages of handling loose rounds, semi-smokeless powder, and non-flat trajectory outweighed a never-empty magazine.
Click to expand...

Its not historical legend, it was documented policy. AND, it was carried on with the rifle that replaced the Krag, the 1903 Springfield. The concept was that soldiers fired single aimed shots, using the magazine cutoff, saving the "firepower" of the loaded magazine for assaults, or repelling attacks.

I think that while TR was probably impressed with the Mauser and its stripper clips, I don't think the "semi-smokeless powder" and "non-flat trajectory" were motivating factors. Simply because there were NO known alternatives, at the time.

Remember that at the time, the Krag was the flattest shooting military arm we had ever had. AND it also had the most firepower. TR (and others) recognized the superiority of the Mauser charging system, and we adopted it on our next rifle (1903), but note also that we kept the mag cutoff of the Krag. (slightly modified)
 
Despite how silly it seems today, the magazine cutoff wasn't a bad idea considering the supply issues in place at the time. As I understand it at least some ammunition was still being delivered to the front line with horses through WW 1.

As far as the "flatter shooting better range" of the 7MM Mauser at the time, I seem to recall that the 7MM of the time only marginally outperformed the 30 Government. I believe the charger loading was the real performance advantage of the Mauser.

I believe that the stories of the Spanish staying out of range and inflicting heavy damage on our troops was more for the troops carrying the old Trapdoor. Can someone confirm that most of our troops in the Spanish American war carried the trapdoor? I have heard that but don't have a real citation for it.
 
In the Spanish American War and subsequent Philipines War the volunteer troops-the majority-carried Trapdoors, the only volunteer regiment with Krags
was the the Rough Riders thanks to TR's pull.
US military doctrine at the time was basically defensive, troops were to fire single shots at an advancing enemy, keep the magazine in reserve in case they were rushed.
I think the complaint about the clouds of white smoke from the blackpowder 45-70 is somewhat exaggerated, our troops were still the dark and light blue uniform color scheme of the Civil War, the Spanish wore a lightweight blue or offwhite uniform called rayadillo-not exactly camouflage patterns. Rather the more open order tactics of the time, combined with greater use of cover and concealment-cf. the wounded Rough Rider at Las Guasimas who told troops coming up in support "You can't see 'em."- made target acquisition a lot harder.
In the Boer War the British remarked on "the emptiness of the battlefield".
The "road" leading from Daiquiri to Las Guasimas and San Juan Heights wasn't much more than a rough dirt track subject to frequent tropical downpours, the V Corps was desperately short of horses- in the cavalry only TR and Leonard
Wood and some of the other field grade officers were mounted, ALL of the cavalry's mounts were left behind in Tampa due to shipping constraints, hence the belief of admittedly desk types that the troops shouldn't waste ammunition had some validity.
 
I took the carbine to my local smith to see if he could identify the stock. I had seen the Herters recoil pad but didnt realize that Herters sold gun stocks. Apparently this is a Herters stock.
 
Herter's sold EVERYTHING! Almost literally. From fishing sinkers to boxcar loads of gunpowder. Ice augers to the .401 Herter's Powermag revolver. Duck calls to barreled rifle action. If it was something in the sporting goods field, Herter's had one, and had their name on it. Always with a ton of ad hype about how it was the best in the world, etc. They also had some things that no one else did. Anyone else remember the "wasp waist" bullets?

Herter's (essentially) had their throat cut by the GCA 68, but didn't finally die until about a decade later.

Through WW I? The famous Blitzkrieg Wehrmacht infantry was still 70% horse supplied.
Click to expand...

EVERYONE relied on horse transport to some degree through WW II. Even the US, although we made the deliberate decision not to use horses (in general) for our overseas forces during WWII, we still did use horses and mules as supply transport in some of the roughest terrain (Italy, CBI, Philippines, etc.)

Everyone else still relied much more heavily on horse transport for supplies and for artillery movers, and marching on foot for infantry.

The famous Panzer forces were never more than a thin shell of armor and mechanization over the bulk of their conventional army, who operated the entire war with essentially WW I (horse/foot) transport.
 
The gunsmith who helped ID the stock said the Herters tended to not be as nice as say a Bishop, but this one sure is nice. Planning to shoot it in the morning.
 
[Today was the first serious shooting since the stroke last summer took the vision in the lower half of mynleft (shooting) eye. The results may mean that my competition days are over. This is the best I could do using the Redfield peep sight.

100 yards, lead sled - Before final adjustment

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xd5um1gu8f5i3mn/3-29-15 b4 adjust.jpg?dl=0

after my last adjustment (there are actually 14 rounds in this target even though there are only 12 holes. The single hole at approximately 5 oclock in the black actually has 3 hits.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gihrjat2jzyxwhq/3-29-15 after adjust.jpg?dl=0

the above took every bit of concentration I have. I may have hurt my chances using the lead sled. My eye is several inches further back from the peep then if i hold the carbine normally. I didnt notice this until I shot the last 5 rounds off hand at the 200 yard steel targets.
 
Last edited:
The group sizes above were 4 1/2" for the before my last adjustment and 5 14" after. Merit makes an adjustable diopter that replaces the one installed in the Redfield and Ihink I'll see if that helps. Maybe holding the rifle normally,without the lead sled and closer to my eye, and the smaller peep will help. I think today was a result of not being able to focus on the front sight and not the fault of the carbine.

Otherwise I may have to use the scope mount holes in the sideplate and scope this thing. I would hate to do that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top