1897 Winchester + Newbie = Sporting Clays?

J

JasonWilliam

Moderator
Hi all. When my dad died, he left me his old D-frame M97 that had a production date of 1908. I shot it when I was a kid, but even then I remember Dad saying he thought it needed a good restoring. That was 20 years ago and its been barely used since.

I discovered today that I live a few minutes away from Coyote Valley Sporting Clays. I stopped in and now I'm hooked. I'm used to shooting at paper (with my 18" Benelli pump), but clays are totally new to me and I am really looking forward to getting into it. Obviously the 18" is far too short for clays...

Another consideration is the gun's fit. I'm 6'9" tall and it feels really small between my shoulder and trigger finger. I'd have to look into getting it made to fit right.

Here are a few shots of the M97:
1897_1.jpg


1897_2.jpg


1897_3.jpg


1897_4.jpg


1897_5.jpg


1897_6.jpg


Am I better off getting something else to learn on? Would the M97 make a good clay shooter, assuming I could get it restored into working order? Should I even bother trying to get it restored at all, even if it was only used occasionally?

This is all really new to me. I understand its not the equipment that matters, but rather its all about the shooter at this stage. On the other hand, I don't want to get turned off to a potential new hobby because I handicapped myself right out of the gate.

Thanks for your time guys.
 
Having a gun your Dad left you is special. If you restore it, reblue I think it's lost the character that only time can give. It won't be the same shotgun anymore,

One approach may be to give the gun a good service. Strip it down for a good clean and lubrication. Easy on the lubrication. Some fine bronze wool with gun oil on the metal and some stock wax on the wood will give it some life and not damage the patina.

It's possible to get a longer replacemant stock from "Macon Gun Stocks". These guys do a good job. Look on the website and it'll say whether they have a 1897 stock. Another idea is to pick up another used stock that hasn't been cut for a pad and install a 1" pad and shims under it if needed. That way you can keep the original stock for the gun, original.

I have a two barrel set 1897 from 1900-1901. The original stock for the gun is too short for me also. Even though the gun is a two barrel set, 26" and 32", the stock is for the brush gun, 26" IC. These stocks are shorter than the rest as they figured at the time that a shorter stock comes up easier when in the thick brush hunting upland birds. The original stock has the tear-drop metal buttplate and didn't want to spoil it so I picked up another stock that's longer and installed an old Hawkins pad I had.

Rod
 
Hi Rod, thanks for the info.

I agree with you on not restoring it. It is the way it is because Dad used it, and his dad before him. A good servicing is the right way to go.

I've never serviced a weapon before, however I am fairly handy and I love to work on mechanical things. Is this a project that, if I took my time, I could successfully and safely complete? Or is this best left to the pro's? Believe me, there's no ego here; if I aint the guy to do it, I aint the guy plain and simple.

I checked Macon Gun Stocks. They have many great options for the '97. Thanks for that too.

So here's my question: lets say this gun is serviced and has a stock that fits me and is ready to rock. Is this a good choice for a beginner trap/skeet/clay shooter? Or is this best left 'in the bag' for now while I learn on something else?
 
It may not be tailored exactly to your pull or be as finely balanced as some Italian OU but it's got character and history. Take it out and give it a shot, it'll probably surprise you.
 
It's easy for an inexperienced person to damage a fine old firearm like that '97. Old guns like yours are typically a little more complex, as far as their number of small parts, than newer designs. Plus everything was basically hand-fitted and some parts are going to be scarce. Personally, I think you're better off taking it to a gunsmith who you KNOW has a solid reputation and let him go over it, replacing those parts, particularly springs, that he thinks it needs. But, be advised, there are "gunsmiths" out there not worthy of the name, so be sure to take it to someone reputable.
 
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Greetings JasonWilliam, and welcome aboard

I generally concur with wraco's and others comments.

At 6-9, I'm guessing it's going to take more than a little addition to make the stock fit you correctly. Also, that Benelli probably feels on the small side, too. For a guy who has to duck to go through a standard door, you're no stranger to needing things custom fit. The same goes for shotguns.

For a rough estimate, measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle (from the tip) of your trigger finger. Most shooters are in the neighborhood of 14 - 14 1/2 inches. And, that's what typical stocks are designed around. The difference between 14 1/4 and you actual measure will give you a ball park idea of how much you need to think about adding to a typical butt.

Your dad's Model 97 isn't well suited to standard clay target games; but, if mechanically sound, it's a okay for getting acquainted to shot-gunning. There are many guns, not typically associated with the shooting sports, that are used on clays for training.

In cowboy action shooting the Model 97 is the most modern shotgun design allowed and is favored by many over old time double barreled guns. Do you have any cowboy boots? ;)

Whatever you decide to shoot, have a great time at Coyote Valley
Pete
 
An expert firearms appraiser once told me that if you want to ruin an antique gun's collectors value, go ahead and have it re-blued and the stock re-finished.
 
Welcome Jason

Like others advised, I think if you spend some time shooting a gun that is really set up to fit you / it will substantially improve your learning curve.

Having a gun that has come down in the family is a great thing - and its your gun - and you should do whatever you want with it. Personally, I might clean up the wood a little - renew it a little - but not take all the nicks out of it / strip it down / get any rust off of it - oil it up and keep it. I'd shoot it once in a while - but I wouldn't try and turn it into my primary gun.

To me its not about protecting its "value" its about protecting it / maybe passing it down to the next generation.
 
I'd advise to have it restored in the way that the gun retains it's originality and have it in a showcase in the living room.
 
A lot of family history there. If it were mine (it's not) I would have it serviced by a gunsmith familiar with the workings of an 1897 Winchester. As for Sporting Clays, it might be fun one time, but it is probably best served as a family heirloom. There are much better choices for SC's.
 
Ok, I hear ya guys. Sounds like it could be made into a passable clay shooter, but its probably best served by making it serviceable, and bringing it out on occasion, rather than regularly. Fair enough (and appreciated).

So that leaves me with the prospect of renting for a while, or buying. Searching here says the Rem 870 is a good beginning choice. I just measured as per ziippy's recommendation and I'm showing around 17". So thats about 3" worth of extension I'd need.

Do you think renting is a viable option? Or will that 3" difference make things so uncomfortable that I'll be shooting myself in the foot right out of the gate.

Thanks again everyone. This is really helpful.
 
Do you think renting is a viable option? Or will that 3" difference make things so uncomfortable that I'll be shooting myself in the foot right out of the gate.
Click to expand...

Uncomfortable is one thing, getting beat-ip is something else. If there's anything that turns-off a new shooter (or, any shooter) it's getting beat-up by recoil. There's a difference between a gun just feeling wrong and being punished. Obviously, a rented gun isn't going to fit you correctly; but, you may be able to shoot a few rounds with a factory stock without getting hurt. But, you don't want to finish a day's shooting all bruised up and looking like you've been run over by a truck. Something you can be use on a rental gun is a slip over recoil pad that will add some length to the stock. It could be used on your dad's gun, too.

A Remington 870 Wingmaster would be a great choice for what I call a Phase One gun -- a gun for learning basic shotgun marksmanship that will serve in sampling various field and range activities. Many clubs have Wingmasters as their loaner/rental guns. The current MSRP of a Wingmaster is under $800.

Of course, others will recommend their favorite gun from a fraction of the Wingmasters price to several time more. Keep in mind that a Phase One gun isn't one that's specialized for a specific task such as tactical, trap or skeet. Most shooting sports require a quick second shot, and a pump is the cheapest repeater. For several hundred dollars more, you could get an auto-loader and for even more an over/under gun.

Good luck,
Pete
 
6' freakin' 9"?:eek: Can't ya just reach out and grab the clays?:D Do they make a gun and stock combo for "Lurch"?
Love that old pump gun!
Brent
 
Jason. I too, among the ones that feel the most you shoud do is try a little 4/0 steel wol and oil for the metal and some kind of quality wax for the wood.
About the only place I would consider doing a "refinish" is Doug Turnbull Restorations in NY. He has a worlwide reputation for doing perfect work using the same finishes and blueing methods that the factories used. The only down side is that he is very expensive, worth it, just pricey.
I hope you get more involved with the 3 shotgun sports redily available but I would not use this gun more that to try it out. It is an old gun, hard to find replacement parts for and inspite of the high quality from the period, it probably wouldn't be able to hold up to anyone seriously being involved. Good luck too.
 
Holy Cow - you measured 17" for a guideline on LOP / that's pretty long...

I'm 6'5" - my length of pull is 14 1/2" - but I'm ok with guns set at 14 3/8" ... I don't have especially long arms for my size but , if you're right, 17" is very long - and none of the standard production guns are going to come close to fitting you.

But I think at this point - you need to go slow / shoot some standard guns - get a little time with them and see how they feel.
 
Jim, maybe I measured wrong?

I took the measurement by bending my right arm. I put the end of the tape measure in the inside crease where my arm bends at the elbow. I then straightened my wrist and pointed my index finger and measured to where the first knuckle starts to bend (first from the tip).

Is that the right way to measure??
 
Yes, it sounds like you measured it right.

Take your current shotgun ( unloaded please ) - and place the butt into the inside of the crook of your elbox - lay it down your forearm - and see where the knuckle of your trigger finger hits the trigger - same thing as a tape measure -but you're just using the gun ....

Can you keep the butt of the gun into your elbow and still comfortably reach the trigger ? Measure the length of pull on your current shotgun ( from center of trigger to center of butt pad ) - what is that dimension ?
 
Hi Jim, here's a pic I asked my wife to take that shows the difference:

1897_fit.jpg


The dimension you asked for is almost exactly 1foot (12"). Obviously this thing has been cut down somewhere along the line.
 
Jason,

Yikes, that's way too short!
Unless you dad was really on the short side, it's no wonder the ol' M-97 didn't see much action for the last 20-years. Was it his boyhood gun? Do you have any kids?
 
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