1886 Winchester Retro-fit Conversion

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MoGas1341

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Hello all, I currently own an 1886 Winchester that was made in 1895 that has a full length octagon barrel (26") and magazine tube. I looked up the serial number and had a friend do an inquiry (not full letter) to the Cody Museum. The results came back as it being shipped from the factory as a takedown rifle.

The problem is, it is definately not a takedown rifle... The serial number on the bottom of the receiver is correct with the memo sent back, as well as the barrel description.:confused:

Can anyone explain to me why someone would change it to a standard rifle?

Has anyone here came across this before? I assure you all the parts are indeed Winchester stamped etc, just need to hear some thoughts on this... Thanks
 
I don't think you can convert a takedown Winchester lever into a solid frame rifle. I've never heard of someone trying, and if they did I think the alterations to the frame would be obvious to the eye. If I'm wrong and this is possible, I would love to see the evidence.

Sometimes factory letters are known to create more questions than they answer. My guess is the explanation is as simple as a mistake in copying down the features of your rifle in the factory ledger, which were then transcribed into your factory letter.
 
So you think someone 'back in the day' just wrote it down wrong? The receiver is definately one solid piece, threaded in the normal manner to twist the magazine tube out to remove the fore end. I see absolutely no evidence of how it could have been a takedown, but was curious if it was at all possible...

So essentially I have "A 1970 Chevelle that GM says was black when it left the factory, but when I bought it from the dealer in 1970, it was blue"? (to give an example)
 
Confused by the description......

Maybe a couple of good pictures could save a thousand words. I looked at a nice 1886 takedown today in 33WCF but couldn't afford it.
 
Here are the first 3...
 

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As you can see, I have to remove the screws on the fore end cap in order to get the front stock off. The barrel is definately fixed into the receiver (takedown convenience is not an option! lol) What are your thoughts on this?
 

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MoGas1341 said:
So essentially I have "A 1970 Chevelle that GM says was black when it left the factory, but when I bought it from the dealer in 1970, it was blue" ?
Click to expand...


With those 3 screws going into the face of the receiver, I'd say you have a takedown that's missing the half that stays with the forend/bbl; so somebody installed a barrel in the reciever as normally to have a shootable rifle.

IDK why the screws are threaded into the receiver, when they're normally threaded into the removable section's flange, from the front, under the FE wood.

Maybe the takedown section became too loose to shoot safely; or it became loose & whomever was unaware of the method to adjust/tighten it.


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Fascinating. You have an actual conversion of a takedown to solid frame.

The "half that stays with the foreend/bbl" is still there, it has just been welded to the receiver. Compare the width of the front flange of the receiver to a solid frame gun. This one is about four times as wide because the barrel extension has been welded on solid. You can see the grind marks where the weld was dressed down. In closeup photo 1886-2 you can see a little open seam at the top. Probably didn't want to distort the receiver ring and action threads. I figure the screws were to align the parts while being welded and just left there when done, or maybe the weld locked them in.
 
The funny part is, where they welded it etc, it is smooth as a baby's butt. The barrel has no ability to spin out of place, and does indeed have the Winchester roll marks. Back to the other question though, why would there be a reason to do this? That seems to me like paying for power windows on your car, then immediately ripping the motors out and installing manual hand cranks...

I have shot this gun several times, and it is very functional and accurate. The previous owner that I got it from had a gunsmith check the chamber, headspacing, and the bolt's lock up, and told him it was 100% safe to fire with appropriate 45-70 loads for the era (NOT Buffalo Bore! lol)
 
Now that I've seen the pictures I concur with the assessment that the rifle was originally a takedown. I agree this is fascinating. I've never seen anything like this.

I have seen loose takedown rifles. From my reading about early Winchesters it wasn't unusual for a person who didn't understand their operation to damage them. In any event you have an interesting functional rifle.
 
Thank you all, truth be told Im glad I got other people's eyes on it, because the welding job is so smooth it had me convinced that it was a solid frame. Then again, I dont have a 2nd one (I wish) that I could have put side by side to compare the length of the reciever. I'm glad I got to show a few folks "a first for them" in the firearms realm. :cool:
 
The only logical reason to set it up solid would be that it had gotten looser than the adjustments could take up for.

There have been a lot of Savage 99 takedowns set up solid, either by peening the threads, soldering the barrel in, or fitting a new barrel tight. But those are typically accurate enough to tell an improvement in accuracy, especially with a scope sight.
 
The difference between a Winchester takedown and a Savage take down is that with the Savage there was no way of adjusting tension once it became loose other than peening the barrel threads or the like.

With the winchester, though, those three adjusting screws allowed for that, and the barrel could be kept tight through quite a range of play.

While an oddity, unfortunately that kind of work has pretty much destroyed the gun's value.
 
"...why would there be a reason to do this?"

Like Jim Watson said, the darned things shot loose until the barrel threads were so worn that the adjustment couldn't take up all the slack. (Ask how I know!)

Takedown rifles and shotguns date from the days when hunters traveled to the hunting area by train and wanted compact gun cases that would fit in the overhead luggage rack rather than being turned over the tender mercies of the railroad "baggage smashers."

Jim
 
I think more takedown guns were worn loose by repeated takedown than by shooting.
All model 12s are takedown and I think you are liklier to see a loose hunting gun carried on a short leg o mutton case than a sloppy trap gun carried in a full length sleeve.
 
Good point. Maybe it is my imagination, but I seem to recall that Winchester would convert takedown Model 12's to solid on special order. Does anyone remember anything like that?

Jim
 
Referring to what Mike Irwin said, I realize that the value is destroyed from this conversion, but it shoots great and I intend to keep this one until I meet my maker!

I don't think I'll ever sell it but, I did get it for a great deal from an old man in Florida that didn't want it to go to his kids because of 'personal reasons.' He said he had it since the early 50's and got it from and old farmer that he did a lot of carpentry work for on his barn and accepted it as payment. He doesn't know where it came from before then... I wish these old guns could talk sometimes.

I'd like to thank everyone here for helping me out on figuring out the possible reasons and mystery surrounding everything...
 
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