1863 sharps

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killbears

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is the chamber diameter of an 1863 sharps supposed to be bigger than the bore diameter? the reccomended load is 60-80 grains of 2f black powder but if i drop a 54 cal bullet in it till it reaches the lands it will hold well over 100 gr.
i read somewhere about a chamber sleeve in these things. anybody know anything about these things? thank you and please forgive my ignorance.
 
The chamber is larger than the bore. It has to be in order to even get a bullet in there. The bullet is supposed to be a bit larger than the bore of the barrel, and therefore the chamber behind the bore has to be bigger still. That is so the bullet gets a good seal and engages the rifling. Sharps are more accurate than muzzle loaders, which need undersized bullets, and seal those using patches of cloth, but not so tight that you cannot ram it down the barrel. That makes for a moderate fit and engagement of the rifling at best. That is unless you hammer a larger bullet down the barrel with a mallet and ramrod strong enough to take the punhishment. I know that some old time hunters did just that, but they had time between shots to do that. Combat rifles like the Sharps can get you killed if you take that long to reload.

It does indeed have a sleeve inside the chamber. It is a metal bushing that you can pull out of the rifle, though it will NOT come out the rifle the whole way. You would need to take the barrel off the rifle if you want to get it out or replace it. It is called the Gas Check.

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It is for making a tight gas seal when the gun goes off, being pushed against the breech block. When you get home at night you are supposed to clean that gas check a lot more than any other part of the rifle. If it doesn't get cleaned, it will lock up and you might not be able to get the breech block to open because the sleeve is pushed against it. It won't budge due to the dirt/residue build up and force you to scrape the face of the breech block against it to open it. Clean it, and oil it!

There are special tools you can buy to be able to move the gas check if it really is stuck. The one from Pedersoli is supposed to be better than the one that Dixie Gun Works sells. It looks like a handle with a split tube on the end. You put that in the back, tighten down then handle, which spreads the two halves of the rubber tube apart wedging it in and giving you a good grip on the gas check. The metal rod sticking out the side is to hold the head steady while you do the torquing down with the handle.

I might skip buying a tool and just cut a .50 caliber (half inch) wood dowel rod in half on a bandsaw at work. I will use a large, flat tip screwdriver to wedge the two halves apart

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If you are worried about the size of the powder charge being too much, I don't think anybody in their right mind would build a rifle that can be over charged. Also, the cartidge guns get up to chambering brass that is .45 caliber, and have powder loads of 70 grains, 90 grains, and even 120 grains of black powder. The 45-70 round, 45-90, and 45-120.

You may also want to buy bullets that are not hollow base bullets, and better still get some longer bullets. Dixie Gun Works sells bullets specifically made for the Sharps.

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The last part of the bullet is a smaller diameter, so you can glue or tie a paper cartridge to it.
 
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thanks a lot for the info, weird guy. guess i'll have to get one of them gas check tools. been shooting muzzle loaders for a lot of years but i never had a percussion breech loader. thanks again and this is a grear forum.
 
I had a couple of the Pedersoli 1863 Sharps and had problems with the gas coming out the breech. Any trouble with that Weird Guy? The last time I shot one it blew my hat off my head from the gas coming out. I had the 45 cal. Pedersolis and dropped 70 gr. ffg powder. I got gas cutting by the breech. The guns were accurate as hell too. I loved them. I went to a sight about the paper cartridge Sharps and saw that Pedersoli was at a match and saw an improvement with an 'O" ring behind the gas plate and now uses that improvement with a different type of steel for the gas plate on the front of the breech block.(My gas plates on my rifles could not be gotten off .Some rifles don't have the removeable gas plates on the breech face) I may try another one of the rifles. The chamber bushing in both my rifles was not moveable so they may have been froze and not knowing about them I figured that was the way they were. The bushing did indent the gas plate where it seals though. That is where the gas cutting took place. The sight I went to about these rifles said something about the gas plate on the breech comes off(mine did not-stuck there tight) and upon firing gas goes behind it and pushes it forward against the chamber bushing. Behind it was where people used some "o" ring to help seal and it worked well enough for Pedersoli(was in the US at a match and saw the improvements people made to his guns) to incorporate the improvements into his rifles. Shilo Sharps says they get no blow back of gas at the breech, People say that Pedersoli rifles with the improvements get no blow back and the new rifles with the improvements get no blow back. How about your rifle? You get blow-back???? How can you clean the chamber bushing if it won't come all the eay out??? I still have two moulds(Pedersoli) for the bullets. One used,one new. 45cal. Good sectional density bullets. The directions with the gun said to use 60gr. max but the chamber held 70gr. with the bullet that came from the mould Pedersoli sells for the rifle. I just used 70gr. Anywhooo, I don't agree about the muzzleloaders not being as accurate as the paper cartridge Sharps. Of course muzzleloaders with the ball don't have the range of a conical bullet but within their range the muzzleloaders can be as accutate as any rifles around. I shoot the patched balls from Muzzleloaders and also the conical from barrels made with a bullet swage that engraves the rifling onto the bullet so it can be loaded easily by hand and tapped at the bottom to widden it so it can't slide forward. The Hawkwn I have with that type of barrel is as accurate as any 45/70 rifle I's shot. That muzzleloader uses a 45/70 type bullet 500gr. I have killed a lot of deer with it for sure. I use it in Ohio where rifles,except muzzleloaders) are not allowed for deer. Only shotguns with deer slugs. See yas Bud.
 
I actually know about the gas leakage around the breech block. It is accepted that there will alwasy be some gas leakage. It is minimised, but not gone.

I have a new Pedersoli that I bought in January, 2006. Mine has a removable faceplate to the breechblock. It also has a very thin washer underneath it, but not an O-ring. It also has small cutouts milled into the back of it so you can get a fingernail under it to pry it off, and so does the face of the breech block steel as well. Mine falls off with no problem at any rate, so I don't pry it off.

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I do get some air movement around my face when I shoot the rifle, but the only problem I ever had with it so far is a bit of the percussion cap comming apart and flying back and getting in my hair after it had fired.

I definetly think this is a rifle that you would want to wear shooting glasses when you use it. I also seem to have a problem with shutting my eyes when I pull the trigger now, so I have to work on that.

Also, I have fouling start to make the breech block stiff after about 3 shots. This is quickly cured by spritzing the breech block with solvent while still on the rifle, and then oiling or wiping some bore butter on it as lubricant grease. The first time I actually took the breech block off and cleaned it good. Both sides of the removable breech faceplate were dirty, so I wiped them off (easy to do when it is still fresh dirt), and also ran a solvent soaked patch through the rifle. I just wadded the patch up and rammed it all the way from the muzzle and out onto the ground, as if I were ramming a wadding into a musket.

I clean the gas check by first pulling the breech block off the rifle (the gas check cannot be pulled back while the breech is installed), and using my pinkie finger to wiggle the gas check out. I spray it with solvent and use a solvent soaked toothbrush to clean the part of the chamber it sits in while the gas check is stilled out and moved to the rear. Then I run the gas check in and out of the chamber a few times, then while it is out I drip some gun oil on it and again run it in and out to work the oil in between the gas check and the chamber walls. Even with all the firing I do, the gas check doesn't really get tight in the rifle. I only cleaned it after all the shooting was done. It is the rest of the gun that gets filthy. My gas check seems to be made of stainless steel, and it was shiny when I pulled back to clean it.

However, if you really do want to go further, Pedersoli does make brass cartridge casses that you can make temporary bullets from. I haven't seen them for sale on Dixie Gun Works, but I might see about buying one or two of them for fun. That ought to seal the rear of the gun up nice and tight like any brass cartidge would do. I think a ramrod of some kind should be kept handy if the brass doesn't want to slide out of the gas check to just push it out.
 
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Picture of that Pedersoli Sharps cartridge case for the breechloading Sharps. This thing also might be an excelent way to reduce the powder charge if you want to do that. Fill it with your powder load first, then some filler material, then push the bullet down on top of the filler. I think you might even be able to glue the bullet to the brass with some kind of weak glue. Or even better would be to build up the rear of the bullet with some string wrapped around the rebated rear ring to bulk it up to make it fit tighter. That is assuming that the lead bullet isn't fitting snug in there by itself.

I wonder how the DNR (dept. of natural resources...ie the hunting regularors of the USA) would feel about a sharps with these brass casses being used for musket season deer hunting? It is only one step away from a true modern rifle.
 
Kill Bears.

Back to your original problem, just go buy some corn meal as filler.

Drop your .54 caliber bullet (should actually be .544 caliber I would think), then drop in 30 grains of corn meal (bought at the grocery store for making corn bread) just like the stuff is gunpowder. Then fill the rear up with actual 2F gunpowder to over flowing, shut the gun, cap the nozzle, and fire it.

That is how you use reduced loads in sharps, or even in revolvers.
 
P.S. I might try that O-ring idea. I will buy one about the right size by guesstimation and put it in the breech block instead of the washer and see what happens.
 
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