1860 Army vs. 1861 Navy - Differences?

togliat

New member
Aside from the .44 caliber vs. .36 caliber difference, can some of you folks help me to understand the differences between the Colt 1860 Army and the Colt 1861 Navy revolvers? I searched the threads but did not find much info - perhaps I did not look hard enough. I am interested in any differences, subtle or gross! Thanks for any help,

:confused:
 
I have both-repros, the biggest difference is that elusive and subtle quality
called "feel". A rough analogy might be comparing a Colt Police Positive Special with an Official Police. You can see and feel the family resemblence but at the same time feel the differences.
 
1860 - 44 cal, 8 inch barrel, long (Army style) grips
1861 - 36 cal, 7 1/2 inch barrel (2nd Gen & Uberti, Pietta is 8"), short (Navy and SAA style) grips.

The 1861 Navy is basically an 1851 Navy with a streamlined round barrel and creeping loading lever like the 1860. Sam called it the Improved Navy.

Like Sigshr said, it's feel. Usually; but not always, people with big hands like the Army grips & people with small/medium hands like the Navy grips. I do know of a couple SASS Shooters that prefer the .44 Cal and have put Navy grips on their 1860 Armies.

FM
 
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Grips can make all the difference

Thanks, I did not notice the difference in grip size and that can certainly help account for some of the "feel" factor. So essentially, caliber and grip size are the two main differences in the Pietta replicas - the fit and finish should be identical?

Thanks for the quick feedback!
 
- the fit and finish should be identical?

Fit and finish should be the same; but varies within the same models and manufacturers. Depends on whether Michaelangelo or Igor assembled it, and whether it was Friday afternoon/Monday morning or middle of the week when it was assembled.

FM
 
Fit and finish should be the same; but varies within the same models and manufacturers. Depends on whether Michaelangelo or Igor assembled it, and whether it was Friday afternoon/Monday morning or middle of the week when it was assembled.

Like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get till you open the box.

I'm holding a 60 and a 61, both 2nd gens. My little finger is below the grip on the 61. You really do not notice the longer barrel on the 60, probably because of the grip fitting all four fingers. With a fluted 60 there is little weight difference.
 
I like the 1861 Navys But in competitive shootin-the Armys are more pop and if that's your deal make sure it fits in era requirements. Some don't. But it depends! Some of you might want to expound on replicas that can only be used in certain events. I''m not real sure.
WBH
 
Navies fit the same time frames as the Armies, and they have plenty of pop to take out a knockdown set to SASS standards. All of the pistol knockdowns I've had the (mis)fortune to face thatwere set to SASS standard, have gone down with no problem. Having said that, I've had to double tap some IPSC poppers to make them go down.
 
Fingers-- I meant 1860s are more "popular" for shooters. Not that they have more pop. I like the Navys better. And they do have plenty of POP .Also, I have found not all replicas will be accepted in some competition shoots. Such as the stainless steel. Some Navys w/ brass trigger WBHguards are not accepted. I don't know the rules or ins and out yet. It's more from the shooters talking in our store. I really don't know.
 
I don't know why WBH went behind brass trigger guards in previous post---Can't type but w/one finger:D
 
Never heard of 51 Navies with brass triger guards not being accepted anywhere. Most Navies (and all other Colt models) had brass ones. Now, NCOWS doesn't allow SS firearms cause it isn't period correct.
 
Thanks,
I think we listen to guys that come in and say things. Supposedly the original Colts didn't have brass trigger guards. But I have an original pocket that is. That is why I'm confused since I've never been to an organized competive shoot. Maybe I should when I muster up my nerve:D But SS is not allowed--and not sure what confederate models can be used.
WBH
 
Most(not all)of the old open top Colts had brass trigger guards and even brass backstraps, some silver plated. If the revolver was intended for a shoulder stock(1860 Army)it would have a steel backstrap.

Did Colt offer a 1860 civilian model? No cut on the frame for a stock and brass guard and strap.
 
Most(not all)of the old open top Colts had brass trigger guards and even brass backstraps, some silver plated. If the revolver was intended for a shoulder stock(1860 Army)it would have a steel backstrap.

Did Colt offer a 1860 civilian model? No cut on the frame for a stock and brass guard and strap.

Colt offered the '51/61 Navy and '60 Army with your choice of brass, plated brass, or blued iron back straps & trigger guards.

The 1860 came in a civilian version, not cut for the shoulder stock; as well as brass backstrapped models that were cut for the shoulder stock. You could also get full fluted or half fluted cylinders by special order.
 
Ubertis tend to be better made, and of better materials, though I've seen Piettas that equaled Ubertis for fit and finish.
With Uberti, you can pretty much bet on having a well-made, well-finished revolver of high quality materials.
Piettas can vary in quality, fit and finish ranging from nearly exceptional to abysmal. I've seen both, though the truly abysmal ones were typically made years ago. Quality control has gone up on Piettas these past six or 7 years.
And quality control on Ubertis has slipped at times.
You pays your money and you take your chances!
But overall, Uberti is better made and of better materials.

Uberti has one advantage -- perhaps an advantage -- over others: slightly deeper rifling.
This shrugs off fouling longer than barrels with shallower rifling, in my experience.

Uberti 1860 Army - rifling .006 inch deep, twist of 1 turn in 32 inches.
Pietta 1860 Army - rifling .003 inch, twist 1:32 inches.

Uberti 1851 Navy - rifling .010 inch deep, twist of 1:32 inches.
Pietta 1851 Navy - rifling .006 inch deep, twist of 1:32 inches.

However, accuracy can be moot with these revolvers. The sights are rudimentary -- just a notch in the hammer and a brass bead near the muzzle. That brass bead, unless blackened, will reflect sunlight like a lighthouse, making it difficult to get a decent sight picture.

Also, how you load the beast affects its accuracy.
I use a .380 inch sized ball for the .36s, and .454 or .457 for the .44s. The larger ball ensures a tight seal in the chamber, plus it creates a wider driving band around the ball for the rifling to engage.
Though the books and internet usually suggest balls of .375 inch for the .36, and .451 inch for the .44, you're better off using a slightly oversized ball. This aids accuracy.

Black powder, FFFG grade, is by far the best propellant. I've tried all the modern powders and always go back to black.

A properly greased wad made of real wool felt, not polyester wool, also promotes accuracy.
Ox-Yoke makes Wonder Wads of real wool felt in the proper sizes. However, the dry lubricant on them does very little to keep fouling soft. You need moisture to keep black powder fouling soft.

A proper lubricant is natural, not based on petroleum: olive oil, vegetable oil, lard, bacon drippings, mutton tallow (the best), Crisco, beeswax or any other oil or grease that didn't begin from a well in the ground.

Lightly lubricate the felt wad with any of the above, or in combination, and seat firmly on the powder charrge. Follow with the oversized ball mentioned above. Place proper-sized caps on the nipples (No. 10 or 11, it depends on what nipples you get on your revolver) and you're ready.
If you use a lubricated wad between powder and ball, there is no need to put grease over the ball. The wad will provide enough lubricant and protection from multiple discharge.

The Colts can be counted upon to hit high at 25 yards, as much as 18 inches high when the sights are aligned with the tip of the brass bead in the hammer notch.
This can be alleviated somewhat by carefully deepening the groove in the hammer notch.
But before you take such drastic action, find the most accurate load combination for your revolver.
The Colts were designed to hit high because it was figured that a soldier would fire them at longer distances than what passes for handgun range today. Remember, after the soldier fired his one-shot rifle, he still had to keep the enemy at bay with his revolver.

My own Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy hits dead-on at about 100 yards with a ball, greased wad and 24 grs. of FFFG black powder (nearly a maximum load).

Dang ... I rambled on didn't I? Oh well, hope some of the above info helps. Also visit the sticky I posted a few years ago entitled, "So you want a cap and ball revolver?"
Lots of good info in there.

Myself I like the feel of the 1851 Navy over the 1860 Army. I don't have an 1861 Navy but those I've handled were very well-balanced.

Interestingly, in the past I've read expert pistoleros give the opinion that the 1851 Colt is the best-balanced revolver ever made. They'll use them for fancy twirling, for this reason, but few shoot them because they're a bother to load. The Single Action Army is faster to load, although a conversion kit on an 1851 Navy would seem to be the best of both worlds.

Oh well ... rambling again ... gotta stop that and leave ... :rolleyes:
 
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