1851 Navy .36 caliber

B

Brubaker

Inactive
This revolver was purchased new, two months ago, from Cabela's and has been a work in progress since that day. Many modifications have been made. The original Pietta backstrap and wood grips were tossed aside and replaced with a custom brass backstrap and hand made wood grips that are much closer to something of proper Colt geometry. The flimsy and fragile Pietta hand spring system has been replaced with a Ruger spring and plunger, the moving internal components have been deburred and polished, the cylinder exits have been deburred/crowned, rear sight opened up for windage and better target viewing... and the stock Pietta nipples have been replaced with "Slix-Shot" nipples. The wood grips were carved from Rosewood burl and finished with Tung oil. As much fun as this revolver was to shoot, last weekend, I'm a bit sad that the 'smithy' work is now over. Cabela's has a sale on their Uberti 1847 Walkers. A set of Rosewood burl grips would look great on one of those, plus. I also have an idea as to how I can keep the loading lever from dropping, when firing the revolver, while also making it look good. No leather straps, or rubber bands required! Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can best convince the Mrs. that my going to Cabela's and coming home with another BP revolver would be in the best interest of us both? Probably not. I never came up with a convincing argument when I was buying fishing poles. Why should it work with guns?
 

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Crowning the cylinder exits, on BP revolvers, is simply an extra precautionary measure to prevent chain fires. If there are any burrs on those cylinder exits, no matter how small, those burrs will cut groves into the sides of your soft lead balls when you shove them in. That microscopic groove cut into your ball is all that it takes to create a potential path for hot gasses to pass and ignite a cylinder not being fired. I use a countersink, and deburr that exit end ever so slightly... just enough as to barely see it with the naked eye. That's all it takes to make sure that there are no burrs. Shoving grease into the cylinders will not stop chain fires. When you fire the first cylinder, a lot of grease will be blown out of the cylinders close to the one being fired. No help. Deburr your cylinders and put the grease 'behind' your balls, not in front!
 
Load powder into your deburred cylinder, followed by a wad (or some corn meal), as a barrier... then smear a dollop of grease onto the cylinder opening and then seat the ball. You'll find that this method also makes for extremely easy cleaning after all is said and done. You'll need to make your own grease, though. Commercial stuff doesn't work too well, IMHO. Melt and blend 15% pure beeswax with 85% Crisco. If you live in a cold climate, decrease the amount of beeswax. Opposite if you live in a hot climate. You don't want it runny as it might squeeze past your wad, or corn meal and contaminate the powder.
 
The risk of chain fires has been blown wildly out of proportion in this litigious and fearful society. The greatest risk comes from the rear due to ill fitting caps but I reckon Ed McMahon will show up to your house first before that happens.

Chamfering chamber mouths swages the ball so no lead is lost while loading. If one makes their lube right, the chambers will stay covered for each and every shot.

Most of our sixguns shoot their tightest groups with a lubricated felt wad under the ball and over the powder sized .031 over chamber diameter. But it sure is fun to educate the newcomers and do things as was done when these were state of the art!

There's lots of ways to skin the rat.
 
.380 ball still shaves a ring of lead when seated in a deburred cylinder. My gun cleans up much easier than yours, I'll bet, and hey. Old dogs and new tricks... yadda, yadda, yadda. Thanks for the uneducated insult and silly slam! "Back at ya!"
 
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"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Albert Einstein

I'm no genius, by any stretch of the imagination, but by god I'm not a "Lemming" either! I explore, I research, I learn, I design, I experiment and I refuse to accept 'anything' as being the best that it can ever be. That would make me a fool!

Sorry folks, but this sort of thing drives me insane. If it were up to 'Swathdiver' we'd all still be riding horses and crapping in outhouses!
 
My 1860 chain-fired on me last time at the range. First time in YEARS of BP pistol shooting. Fired the 12 o clock cylinder and the 10 o clock went off with it. it was my fault, had a cap with a tiny split in it and I didn't notice it. I found several others in the tin with the same tiny split. Cap came off from recoil and the chamber went off a split second later. Didn't hurt the pistol at all and the two balls hit the target dang near touching :p But it did scare the wiz out of me:eek:
 
I here you BerdanSS, I have had a few chain fires over the last 50 years, All of them my fault. The worst thing is the wasted rounds and the smoke all over the outside of the gun.
 
My post was not directed at you Brubaker but rather the readers. You shouldn't take things so personally. If you're method turns you on, go for it. There's lots of ways of doing things and most of them work just fine. :rolleyes:
 
Brubaker there are lots of theories when it comes to the proper loading of these guns. One way isn't right for all of them. I have never heard of "deburring cylinder exits" in 35 years of shooting bp revolvers. Believe that's all that Smoke and Recoil was asking about. Is that mentioned in a book somewhere? Chamferring chamber mouths would do the same thing, just removing a little more edge than you describe. That's a common modification.
 
chainfire

Over 35 yr of shooting these revolvers Never had a chain fire.
I highly doubt the theory of a burr causing a micro groove.
The entire ball is swagged tightly into the chamberm as it is pushed further into the chamberm thus any "micro groove" would be swaged shut anyway.
You may or may not have a sliver of lead shaved off as you load the ball.

Only time you are not likely to get a solid air / gas seal is if your ball is too small for the factory chamber diameter, or if somehow the factory machined the chamber egg shaped / oval instead of round, and that isn't likely.

Back in the day (1960's-1980') Quality control wasn't as good as today, but was still acceptable. More litigation in all things forced all manufacturers to upgrade in whatever it was they made.
Back in those days, most recommended .451 balls and some .454, depending on which had the best fit and did shave a small sliver of lead.
They also recommended heavier powder charges than today too.

I never used grease over the ball in all this time, have never used a filler.
Always load heavy enough it's not needed.
I did and still do use a wad between powder and projectile I make my own lube. Beeswax and lard. I believe an animal fat is better than vegetable, but to each his own there.
But the microgroove causing a chain fire in a properly loaded revolver that is in otherwise good condition. Nope not buying that theory.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, the best load is the one that produces the greatest accuracy. You can load it with the powder in front of the ball if you like. If it puts all the bullets in the same hole, more power to you. (that was a joke).

I suspect chain fires are a very real danger if you use under-sized balls. This YouTube video shows how easily this is to do intentionally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne4VgCdAy7Y

I'm skeptical of burrs causing grooves on the ball large enough to cause chain fires. But I don't see any harm in deburring the chamber mouths, either. But I would not want to chamfer them to the point that they no longer shaved the balls on loading as otherwise how can you tell if you have a properly sized ball?

I have developed accurate loads for my revolvers using 3F Goex, cream of wheat filler, and the ball, followed by lube over the balls, which is required in N-SSA competition.

I have not tried any other kind of filler over the powder. I have experimented with no filler and seating the ball deeply against the powder and accuracy was never as good as with a filler.

Lube under the ball may well help keep fouling soft but does not lubricate the bullet. I do not believe lube over the ball does much for chain fire prevention. It may not even do much for lubricating the bullet as much of it is blown away in adjacent cylinders when you start shooting.

Steve
 
But I would not want to chamfer them to the point that they no longer shaved the balls on loading as otherwise how can you tell if you have a properly sized ball?
Click to expand...

Oh you can tell with the force required for the rammer to swage that ball in there. Especially if you use .454 balls vs. .451, or .457 vs. .454 (depending on the make).
 
An interesting side note. Colt wrote that he found that chamfering the mouths of the cylinder prevented chain fires from that source. That the angle of incidence being equal to the angle of reflection hot gasses were directed away from the chamber mouths to the point that loose powder placed over the ball was not ignited when an adjacent chamber was fired.
 
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