168gr Federal Gold Metal Match

G

Gregory Gauvin

New member
My gunsmith recently finished tuning the trigger on my M14 build, unitizing gas cylinder and mounting a Leupold Mk IV scope. He took the gun to his club to bore sight it for me. It shot a 3 round .4" group. He was using .308 Federal Gold Metal Match 168 grain bullets. I'm more of a reloader than he himself, not sure why, perhaps, as a gunsmith is supplied generously with ammunition. He said this Federal stuff is $41 a box. I won't be spending no $41 on a box of 20 rounds of ammo. I'm a reloader. But since this ammo shot so well, I figured it would give me an idea of where to start and what the gun liked.

On the box Federal says they use 168 grain Sierra Matchking BTHP bullets. I do not see a cannelure. My gunsmith says trying to mimic this load will be difficult, as others have tried, reason being, is that Federal use a proprietary blend of powder that no one really knows what it is, nor can get. The only information I can gather is muzzle velocity is stated at 2600 ft/sec. OAL measures 2.80".

I generally load with either H4895 or WC846 ball powder (BL-C(2) data. According to my books, 44grns of BL-C(2) yields 2600 ft/sec, which is a minimum load. Max is 47grns @ 2754.

41grns of H4895 yields 2553 with a max charge of 43.5grns @ 2703 ft/sec.

Has anyone found a sweet spot loading 168grn matchkings with H4895? Obviously getting 2600 ft/sec with H4895 I'll probably be somewhere around 41.5 grns.

Yes, yes...I know....I'm going to have to start at 41 grains and work up a load .1 or .2 grains at a time until I find that sweet spot....

Not looking to exceed 2650 ft/sec. I'm not one to unnecessarily beat up my guns (especially an expensive M14 build) and put more stress on my op rod than needed for single hole groups.
 
I never had any luck with 4895 in my 308 rifles. Imr4064 and imr4166 shoot way better for me. Could just be my two rifles who knows.
 
Question:
What were the Sierra 168 gr bthp Matchkings called before they were called Matchkings? Old timers not allowed to answer; only those with 25 years or less loading experience.
 
Not to poke fun here, but .4-3 shot group at 100 yards is nothing new. It is par for a 308 to shoot that good. Work up your own load for your rifle. If you, have this stuff on hand try it once, you might be impessed

43.2 gn RL-15
GM210M Primer
168 Serria Match BTHP
2.80 COL.
I bet it shoots as good or better.
 
Last edited:
Also caught my eye, 5 shot group at those measurements for sure a barn stomping dance breaks out.

I get some tiny 3 and even 4 shot groups, getting 5 in the same hole is a challenge (still trying!)
 
Well...we aren't talking about a bolt gun here. It is a semi-auto. Bullet diameter is .308, so, we got the shaky hands of a 70 year old gunsmith shooting this. All bullets clover-leafing seems acceptable to me. What kind of accuracy have you guys gotten out of a match grade M-14?

And I made a mistake. It wasn't a .4" 3 shot group. It was an 8 shot group.
 
What were the Sierra 168 gr bthp Matchkings called before they were called Matchkings? Old timers not allowed to answer; only those with 25 years or less loading experience.
Click to expand...

Talk about a thread wrecker.

But even though I am disqualified, I have to offer this.

In my mind, all Sierra bullets that eventually evolved into some sort of King, were all junk without a doubt.

I say this from experience, plus I still have maybe three boxes of them from way back then. Some were thrown in the trash....full boxes of them.

This was from when they were made in Santa Fe Springs, CA. and a product of the Leisure Group, Inc.
 
Well I apologize if the question is a thread wrecker. Threads do go off on tangents sometimes but it does relate to the primary subject matter, the 168 gr Sierra HPBT. Just thought it might be a curiosity item. But if you still have some of the 168s from the Santa Fe Springs days, do post an answer. Question is open to all as I thought it would be anyway. I don't really know when the name changeover took place.

However to stick with the thread, I'm still impressed with .4 inch three shot groups, but now exceptionally so inasmuch as the group is an eight shot group. I was hoping however that it was done with a Garand rather than the 14. Occasionally I may get a .4 inch two shot group somewhere within the eight shots.
 
Last edited:
I have not tried 4895 with 168's, I used 4064 and Varget, and both proved to accurate enough once I found the right amount to load. I have since moved on from the 168 SMK to the Hornady 178 Match. It has a much higher BC so I can now shoot 1000 yards without the bullet subsonic.
 
What were 168 SMKs called before they were 168 SMKs?

I remember reading an article about Gary Anderson winning an Olympic gold medal in 300 meter free rifle with a 168 grain Sierra International bullet...

Jimro
 
Jimro:
That is absolutely correct, the Matchkings were previously called Internationals. Just a small item to add to the database of trivial information.

I recently bought a box, or rather a plastic bag, of Hornady 168 gr HPBTs at $30 per 100, some $15 less than the Sierras. Will they be as good as the Sierras?
 
Last edited:
I recently bought a box, or rather a plastic bag, of Hornady 168 gr HPBTs at $30 per 100, some $15 less than the Sierras. Will they be as good as the Sierras?
Click to expand...

Yes, but with a caveat. The Hornady 168s have a secant ogive, the SMKs have a tangent ogive. This can show up as bad groups if you just substitute a Hornady bullet for an SMK with a known good SMK load. But, if you do the load workup and get the right jump to the rifling.

So if you do a good load workup, I think you'll find the Hornady bullets every bit as good as Sierra, but I also bet you'll have to seat them a tad longer and adjust your powder charge to make them really sing.

Jimro
 
My load f8r this bullet is 44grs of RL15. Best 5 shot group at 100yds was .307". After i shot that i packed up for the day.
 
A match M14 that will hold inside about a minute and a half over ten rds is doing it's job. If I can get that scoped, off a rest, with powder straight out of the measure into my set-aside worst-of-the-bunch-cases, I stop looking. I've had a couple low-count groups under a half inch, but I do most of my shooting with iron sights and anything at around an inch is pretty hot IMO. Inside a minute is really good for an M14; enjoy it while it lasts.

To your smith's point, you won't be able to copy the load that Federal makes, but that's not to say you can't equal or better it.

I haven't messed with Hodgdon's 4895, but it ought to be a no-brainer to come up with load for the 168 SMK that shoot well. You're going to have a harder time finding a load that will shoot poorly.


DSCN7774.JPG
 
Last edited:
Agree w 30cal. If you are looking to replicate 8 rounds into .4" regularly you are likely in for a disappointment with reloads or fed match. Just be sure you don't chase the impossible.
 
I haven't messed with Hodgdon's 4895, but it ought to be a no-brainer to come up with load for the 168 SMK that shoot well. You're going to have a harder time finding a load that will shoot poorly
Click to expand...

Great group 30cal!

Yes these are 174 FMJBT's not 168 grain bullets, but any load I developed with 174's was perfectly safe with 168's.

I am of the opinion that at the pressures you operate a M1a, which are less than bolt rifles, that any of the 4895 series of powders, that is IMR 4895, H4895, and AA2495, will shoot the same at the same velocity. Only real differences are lot to lot variations. A load that should shoot well in your M1a will be between 40.5 and 41.5 grains with a 168 match bullet.

Don't push it much further as you will find, the gas system will cause you problems. A gas gun was designed to function with a limited port pressure ranges.

I am surprised that some say they have not had a good experience with IMR 4895, let me say, that if your rifle won't shoot with a 168 SMK 41.5 IMR 4895, either you are a bad shot, or your rifle is broke. I have no idea how many Matches were won with that load, but it was a staple on the firing line. Incidentally the experimental 7.62 cartridge, the T65, used IMR 4895 as the propellant. The National Match ammunition was loaded with IMR 4895, though the burn rate was different from what is available as an over the counter powder.


Code: 
 [SIZE="3"] [B]M1A 	1/10" 6 groove Douglas[/B]		
							
174 FMJBT 40.5 grs H4895 wtd, lot 4501 LC mixed WLR 			
	 	OAL 2.800" 				
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2524						
Std Dev =	36						
ES =	90						
High =	2587						
Low =	2497						
N =	5						
	good group						
							
174 FMJBT 41.0 grs H4895 wtd, lot 4501 LC mixed WLR 			
	 	OAL 2.800" 				
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2594						
Std Dev =	14						
ES =	30						
High =	2609						
Low =	2579						
N =	5						
							
							
							
174 FMJBT 41.5 grs H4895 wtd, lot 4501 LC mixed WLR 			
	 	OAL 2.800" 				
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2593						
Std Dev =	15						
ES =	42						
High =	2613						
Low =	2571						
N =	5						
	Best group						
							
174 FMJBT LC79 Match M118 White Box 				
18 May 2008 T =  71 °F						
							
Ave Vel =	2550			 			
Std Dev =	16						
ES =	41						
High =	2564						
Low =	2523						
N =	5[/SIZE]

There was a great article by Gary D. Sciuchetti in the Dec 2008 issue of Handloader Magazine. The title was Developing the Most Accurate .308 Winchester Load. His control round was the Federal 168 Gold Medal Match. I don't remember if any of his loads bettered the factory ammunition, might have, but Federal Gold Medal Match is really outstanding ammunition. I recall the Service Rifle teams were using the stuff out to 300 yards in their M14's. The Marine Corp last used the M14 as an XTC gun in 1996 and out to 300 yards, it was Federal 168's that they were using. They used their own special handloads at 600 yards.
 
Last edited:
I have enjoyed the 168grn Federal Gold Match ammo for some time now. I was turned on to them by a friend when I bought my Remington 700 LTR. They shot great in that rifle and in my Springfield M1A. I wish they made the same setup for my M1 Garand lol. I have found them for alot cheaper that $41 a box. Good luck with your hunt for a good load. I will start the same journy soon.
 
If you are looking for a better deal on the Federal 168 gr Gold Medal Match ammo, look here:
http://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=4C308FGMM2-200
And mind you that price includes shipping, so less than half of the local price, if you can swing a 10 box case.

As for reloading to "match" it, I have read online (so it must be true), that the older Fed GMM ammo was loaded with the 168 gr Sierra Matchking bullet, 42.75 gr of IMR-4064 and a Federal 210M primer. I have settled on 42.5 gr of IMR-4064 with a standard Federal 210 primer and the Nosler 168 gr Custom Competition bullet in my Savage 10T. Very consistent and accurate. For your gun, it sounds like one of the 4895's or Accurate 2495 might be the powder to try, since they are a little faster burning than 4064 or Varget and are better suited to the gas system.
 
I have been told by a good source that 44 grains of IMR4064 is what the Gold Medal Match 168 supplied to the U.S. shooting team is loaded with and has been loaded with for a very long time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top