158 gr LSWC's ?

R

rebs

New member
I am not getting great accuracy with these bullets in 38 cal. When shooting in my model 19 with 4" barrel. I am using bullseye powder with from 2.7 to 3.5 gr. I might have had too much crimp. What is you guys opinion ?
I get excellent accuracy with 2.7 gr bullseye with 148 lhbwc's
What would I be doing wrong with the 158 gr LSWC's ?
 
Shouldn't be any crimp with a cast 158 in a .38. However, have you worked up the load yet?
2.7 is below minimum for a 158 too. Start at 3.1 and go up to 3.5. Try loading .357 cases instead of .38 Special. Same data. Shouldn't make any accuracy difference but it'll eliminate the lube gunk rink in the cylinders.
 
Are these soft lead swaged bullets (Speer, Hornady, Rem) or are they Hard Cast? That answer alone is VERY important to begin devining why you are getting the performance described.
 
The bullets are cast, about medium hardness cast wil lead and antimony. I weighed a bunch and they only vary by 2/10 th of a grain. As far as working up the load, I started with 2.7 and went up from there in 2/10 increments. I do have a medium crimp and from a previous post I should get rid of the crimp ?
 
I don't necessarily agree that there shouldn't be a crimp, but that's not the point.

A semi wad cutter isn't even remotely like a hbwc, and you can't expect it to work like one. Using a heavy hard bullet with a tiny load of bullseye isn't necessarily the best possible combination, so tweak the load, probably shooting up towards maximum instead of way down at minimum, and honestly, i would probably use a slightly slower powder with larger charge if this combination isn't working.

I agree that unless you have a reason, maybe it would be best if you lengthened your oal by using .357 brass and also boosted your load up a bit more.

Sometimes just about any load will work, sometimes you have problems with it all.

BTW, are you sure that your bullets are proper diameter? how about running a few hundred through the gun and then checking for a bit of lead fouling?
 
to load this bullet in a 357 case, would you still use a standard primer or go to a magnum primer ?
 
to load this bullet in a 357 case, would you still use a standard primer or go to a magnum primer ?
Click to expand...

Depends on powder. I'd try a little slower powder like unique and bump the velocity up a smidge.
 
The bullets are cast, about medium hardness cast wil lead and antimony.
Click to expand...


Not sure what "medium hardness" means, but the loads you mentioned are meant for soft, cold swaged lead bullets as is the Alliant data.

Keep increasing the charge. Alliant says 3.9gr max for a Speer cold swaged bullet. I don't have Lyman's in front of me at the moment, but I'm sure it will list an even bigger charge based on a harder than swage bullet.
 
I use a crimp right in the crimp groove - why it's there. I have used Bullseye, but found Unique and Universal give ME better performance in my guns.
 
I crimp both 38 and 357 with that bullet, and I use Unique. You don't need a mag primer with Unique. Your reloading book will likely tell you that.
 
'Nuther thought; have you measured the diameter of the bullet and the groove diameter of the barrel? Is there any leading of your barrel?
I understand some don't see a "need" to crimp .38 Specials with lead bullets, but I have always used a roll (and I tried a taper crimp on a "special" load) and/or profile crimp on all my revolver ammo (first .38s in 1969)...
 
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Your casting or Brand ?? Casting? If yours, what mold, did you size them, if sized..what size?

If Brand ??
You've got another 1/2 grain before hitting max. Turn it up a touch. If that doesn't work, change powders.
 
I bought a large box of bullets from Hornady earlier this year that wouldn't shoot well at all. I measured the diameter at the base and it was .356". The same bullet in a clone mold with a base diameter of .358 shoots great. One thing to keep in mind.....not all cast bullet/powder combinations listed in the loading manual will shoot good out of every gun. Some loads in one persons gun might shoot very well but not so well in another gun. As far as the crimp issue goes, it's not much of a factor in the loads you're shooting. I've been shooting a Hornady clone 158g in a .357 case at a silhouette league for the last several weeks and I've been shooting in the mid to upper 30s with 4227 powder loaded light. You've just got to experiment with your gun a bit more.
 
What size is your bullet and what mold? what size are your throats?
What lube are you using? This is important.

.357 cases will reduce bullet jump to forcing cone, which is much more important to me than crud ring in the charge holes. I too, would warm it up a little.

It is hard to measure a slug from a S&W with its five grooves, but search around and you will find a few different ways to do it without buying an expensive mic, however all of my 19's over the years did well with.358 bullets.
 
cast bullets

You must adhere to the appropriate BHN (Brinnel hardness scale)rating for the velocity range that you will be shooting.

Lower BHN (softer lead) for low velocity and higher BHN (harder lead) for higher velocity.

Bear in mind, very hard cast lead will not " grasp " the lands and grooves of your gun and will result in inaccuracy.
 
To back that up, I once fired a bunch of .355 lead through what turned out to be an oversized bore accuracy was abysmal. I was even getting key holes, and examination showed that there was skid before the rifling took hold. There was no evidence of actual bore contact. Lead can be picky.
 
the bullets are .358, the lube is white in color but I do not know what brand it is. I did back off on the crimp and accuracy did improve some also stepped up the load to 3.2 of bullseye and it improved some more. I now feel I am getting some where with this gun.
Thank you guys for all your help. I appreciate it.
 
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