Has anyone seen a modern test of this bullet loaded backwards? Years ago I seated some of these backwards for carry in my model 36. They expanded well in wet phone books and water. I have not seen any tests in gel though. Is there any load that expands reliably out of a 2" model 36? I currently carry Federal's 125gr.+P Nyclad. I am not a fan of the Mag Safe type loads.
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148 gr. HBWC
- Thread starter Joe D
- Start date
Either you like to read old books/magazines or you're some past the spring chicken stage. It's been many years since the reverse loading of HBWCs was somewhat fashionable.
The HBWC will expand reliably as long as it is pure lead - most especially when loaded base up. At the velocities you could drive them from a 2 or 3 inch barrel I'd question their ability to adequately penetrate heavy clothing or bone.
My speculation is that center hits to the chest or adominal cavity would produce a very ugly, and likely deadly, wound cavity - but not an instant stop because of the lack of CNS involvment.
Another old timer that was reputed to be very deadly at close quarters (but again not necessairly an instant stopper) was the old .38 short with the 200 grain lead RN bullet. It was loaded in this country as the .38 S&W "Police" load. It was also a British military load for a while. IIRC from reading about it, they were very pleased with it's combat performance in Africa.
Apparently it's success derived from the fact that it moved out at around 600+ fps and was barely (if that) stabilized and when it hit it had enough weight to penertrate and at the same time tumbled quite a bit.
Years ago I had a j-frame .38 S&W with a 3 inch barrel. The 200 grain Police load was not at all difficult to control - even in that light a weight gun. I believe the mold for the 200 grain is still marketed, but I don't know of any commercial loadings in the modern .38 Special that would be equivalent.
I expect a comparison of the real world effectiveness of some of these "old timer" loads is not possible. Since no one uses them any more - where would you get the comparison data?
That said, I sometimes carry wadcutter loads in a lightweight j-frame. Partly because that is mostly what I have, and partly because what they can do to a bundle of soaked newspaper impresses me, and partly because I can control the gun better than when firing any of the new "super" loadings.
My guess is that from small short barreled handguns you can have either penatration or expansion, but not both.
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Jim Fox
The HBWC will expand reliably as long as it is pure lead - most especially when loaded base up. At the velocities you could drive them from a 2 or 3 inch barrel I'd question their ability to adequately penetrate heavy clothing or bone.
My speculation is that center hits to the chest or adominal cavity would produce a very ugly, and likely deadly, wound cavity - but not an instant stop because of the lack of CNS involvment.
Another old timer that was reputed to be very deadly at close quarters (but again not necessairly an instant stopper) was the old .38 short with the 200 grain lead RN bullet. It was loaded in this country as the .38 S&W "Police" load. It was also a British military load for a while. IIRC from reading about it, they were very pleased with it's combat performance in Africa.
Apparently it's success derived from the fact that it moved out at around 600+ fps and was barely (if that) stabilized and when it hit it had enough weight to penertrate and at the same time tumbled quite a bit.
Years ago I had a j-frame .38 S&W with a 3 inch barrel. The 200 grain Police load was not at all difficult to control - even in that light a weight gun. I believe the mold for the 200 grain is still marketed, but I don't know of any commercial loadings in the modern .38 Special that would be equivalent.
I expect a comparison of the real world effectiveness of some of these "old timer" loads is not possible. Since no one uses them any more - where would you get the comparison data?
That said, I sometimes carry wadcutter loads in a lightweight j-frame. Partly because that is mostly what I have, and partly because what they can do to a bundle of soaked newspaper impresses me, and partly because I can control the gun better than when firing any of the new "super" loadings.
My guess is that from small short barreled handguns you can have either penatration or expansion, but not both.
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Jim Fox
When I started looking at "stopping power" and shopping for the ultimate bullet in 1979, I saw some article on the backwards 148 HBWC. I think it was considered sort of old fashioned even then. The problem with the load was, IIRC, poor accuracy due to failure to stabilize and the "expansion." After the hollow base peeled backwards in expansion, the petals would break off and you would be left with a 135 or so grain wadcutter at low velocity. This is based on old articles in the Handgun Digest and similar books. I'm betting that when decent hollow points came out, Super-Vel and later, it was of no use at all.
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Shamans emerge whenever certain needs remain unanswered...Mark Levy
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Shamans emerge whenever certain needs remain unanswered...Mark Levy