10mm vs. .450 SMC in a 1911 platform

J

Justin

New member
Ok, I've got a question to ask about the 1911 as a launch platform for 10mm and .450 SMC.

Now, I've read in a couple of different threads that there are those out there who think that the 1911 may not be a good choice of platform for the 10mm cartridge because of the possibility of breakage.

Now, assuming that this is true, then what about the claims that you can shoot .450 SMC out of a 1911 just by switching the recoil spring?

Would there still be the same problems with shooting .450 SMC out of a 1911 as there would be with converting a 1911 to shoot 10mm?
 
The basic problem with the 1911, or any semi automatic pistol, is recoil energy. The 1911 was designed to handle the recoil of a 230 gr. bullet travelling at 850 fps. As such, it is a robust design that will last nearly forever. I am sure that wear and tear are accelerated when the gun is chambered for higher recoiling rounds. Notice that I said higher recoiling and not just higher pressure.

Chamber pressure plays a role in wear and tear, but the recoil energy from 450 SMC and 45 Super are greater that 45 ACP, 10mm, 38 Super or 9mm. Evidently you need some impressive recoil springs for Government models chambered in 45 Super and 450 SMC. At least one article recommends a 28 pound spring for the 45 Super. The heaviest I ever used on a 10mm 1911 was 22 pounds. High recoil energy and heavy springs mean the slide is going to be travelling at higher velocity and can increase battering at both ends of its journey.
 
Wear & Tear

I've done a fair amount of shooting with my Colt's GM using the .45 Super. I use the same gun for weekly IDPA and IPSC shooting. So far, no breakage!

I use the 32# recoil spring that Wolff makes for the .45 Super/.450 SMC in conjunction with a Wilson Shok Buff. Strangely, the pistol works just fine with the 32# spring installed and shooting my IDPA/IPSC load (225 gr @ circa 800 fps), but there's too much wear and tear on the operator!
 
I read somewhere about Dick Casull's experimentation when developing a platform for the .38 Casull. From what I remember, he tried increasingly heavier recoil springs (insanely heavy, like 40 lbs or something), but the speed of the slide moving backwards did not change much. I think he finally settled on 30 lbs. That is why he uses a six inch bbl, it offered more mass to slow it down some more. I think that using a heavier mainspring had a more significant effect. A square firing pin stop can also slow it down a bit.

Probably better to use a combination of things to compensate than only a beefy recoil spring.

--Todd Dow
 
I have run as high as a 28 lb spring in my 10mm heavyweight monolith by Baer, but after considering the wear and tear from the recoil spring ramming the slide into battery, I have gone back to a 23lb one. I just replace the shock buffer every 500 rnds and call it good.
 
Mr. Browning originally designed the 1911 to hold up under twice the pressure of the round which was to be produced for it.

The frame and slide are more than adequate for nearly anything- look at the .460 Rowland! It's just a matter of using a strong enough barrel, and a stiff enough recoil spring...
 
Rocklobster:
When they run a 1911 as a .460 Rowland Clark also used a compensator to increase lockup time. Some of those loads ran over 10mm pressures with a 230 gr slug. Clark's website does not feature the .460R like it used to. Kinda "edgy" product?
 
Possibly...if one didn't use his head. Some people have probably used one of the less-expensive models (Charles Daly, etc.) that use softer castings in their construction. I'd suspect some kaboomage might occur, so Clark doesn't want to incur any sort of liability. If you use a high-quality machined or forged gun for a starting point, no problem. I used a Colt 1991 A1 for mine, been using for quite some time now, no problems. I like the compensator idea, myself- it not only reduces wear and tear on the gun, it helps with control.

Hey Pampers...are you sure you got a 32 lb. spring from Wolff? I checked with them about 3 months ago, the stiffest thing they sold was a 28 lb. unit. I was hoping they'd have the 32 lb. spring, because I can't justify paying the price that Ace Custom wants for their conversion kit. Not only are they very, very proud of it, it contains several items I don't need (or feel necessary) for the conversion. I've got a box full of magazines...why should I buy one of theirs? If Wolff's selling it, wunnerful!
 
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