10mm versus .357 magnum

R

RWK

New member
There have been a considerable number of threads in the last weeks concerning the 10mm, which I'm sure we'd all agree is a first-rate personal defense round. I have checked some of the ballistic tables available on the Internet and would like our TFL experts to compare the defensive potential of 10mm versus .357 magnum loads.

For the purposes of this discussion only, please discount the type of firearm, the number of rounds carried, the advantages of recoil attenuation in a semiautomatic, the barrel length, the reliability of various sidearms, and so forth. This is strictly a comparative analysis of the rounds. For example, presume you have two "N" frame S&W revolvers, identical in every respect except one is a 610 (10mm) and the other is a 627 (.357 magnum).

Thanks for your insights.
 
Hello RWK, Good post. Both calibers are on my list for future purchases and I've done a considerable amount of research on this. From what I understand, the 10mm has more defensive potential as it approaches the .41 magnum. However, the .357mag has a wider bullet selection and might actually be a better stopper because of the loads available. I'm waiting to hear what others, with actual experience with these calibers, have to say about this. Again, very good post.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
I own and shoot both 10mm and 357mag. Most factory 10mm ammo is downloaded to 40s&w specs, but not all. Winchester 175gr silvertip is full power and so is Federal hydra-shok. These 2 rounds are in the 41 mag category you mentioned. As for 357mag, I use 125gr jhp for social purposes and 158gr lead swc for plinking. The 158gr loads are my handloads. You can't go wrong with either 10mm or 357 mag. It is just a matter of personal preference.

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Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli
"Stay alive with a 45"
 
As Yanus said it is largely a personal matter. However, in my case the nod would go to the 10mm. But that is probably because I am a big fan of the .41 magnum and to me the 10 has always looked like an auto version of the .41.

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Gunslinger
 
With curent bullet selection I would go with the 357. Unless you handload the 357 has a big edge.

IMHO the 45 Super has pretty much killed the 10's nich.

I like the 10 mm a LOT. It was the fisrt centerfire handgun I got to shoot. And the only handgun I shot for several years.

And though I am the last one to say price should matter when buying tools or equipment, the lack of components is a problem.

There is only one factory load from the big three that I would use for the 10 [the silvertip] but with a 357 or 45 Super you have several to pick from since the 45 Super will take regular 45 acp loads.

If you handload the 10 you will probably always be able to find quick expanding bullets that are made for the 40. But Brass might become a problem. And you don't have much selection for tougher bullets.

BTW I wouldn't want a N frame in anything but 44 :D

[This message has been edited by Glamdring (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
These two cartridges shot from 6 1/2 inch N frames (have them both), are ballistic equals. Where one cartridge is slightly superior, the other is not far behind. The need for one over the other is going to depend greatly on the exact application.

Unfortunately, 45 Super has not gained the following that 10mm has. While there are numerous guns in current production chambered for 10mm, only Springfield is offering Super's. One can go most anywhere and purchase 10mm ammunitions, that cannot be said of 45 Super. No current reloading manual offers load data for 45 Super, 10mm loads have been available for years. Until those things change, doubt if they will, 10mm is a smarter buy.

Now, we need to clear something up here! To say that 10mm is ballistically similar to 41 Magnum, is like saying VW's are similar to a Porsche. Yes, full power 10mm has the same ballistic characteristic of a warm 41 Magnum load. But, that is with a 41 Magnum at moderate power levels. At full throttle, the 41 Magnum has over twice the power of a 10mm.

Robert
 
There are actually several factory 10mm loads that exceed .357 Magnum ballistics, and it can be handloaded safely to higher power levels, especially with heavier bullets. That said, they are very close at full power levels.

e.g., a hot 158gr .357 Magnum load pushes 1260 FPS, while a full-power 155gr 10mm load can go 1350 FPS (i.e. Pro-Load 155gr Gold Dot HP) or even 1400 FPS (Triton) safely. A 135gr 10mm can push 1440 FPS (Pro-Load Nosler HP), which is equivalent to the lighter .357 Magnum loads.

It is true that .41 Magnum can be loaded to much higher power than 10mm, the full-power 10mm matches factory medium-power .41 Magnum, but at the highest end .41 Magnum wins easily.

C.B.
 
In ALL bullets weights, 357 Magnum exceed 10mm in velocity by about 70 FPS. Same guns, barrel length and same pressure (average 33000 CUP). The 10mm is a slightly larger bullet, giving it a small edge in the energy and TKO department. The .357 Magnum will always shoot a little faster and flatter. It's splitting hairs! It's all going to depend on the application. What is the gun ultimately going to be used for.

Robert
 
Let's be sure and compare apples to apples. A 4.5 inch barreled .357 mag is comparable to a 6 inch barreled 10mm, because the 10mm uses the chamber as part of the barrel, whereas the .357 does not count the chamber in barrel length.

Out of a 6 inch factory barrel (equivalent to a 4.5 inch revolver barrel), while keeping within pressure limits, a handloaded 10mm can push a 135gr bullet to around 1800 fps and over 900 foot ponds of energy! That is nothing to shake a stick at.
If you want heavier, then 155 grain bullets move at 1500 fps.

I don't know what a .357 Mag can do, but I have not seen it reach those velocities out of a 4.5 inch barrel!
 
I like my Ruger security six Heavy barrel, for home I use winchester silver tips 125 grain in 38 special +p.
Now when stomping around in the woods I use a hand loaded 148 grain copper jacketed hollow point in 357mag.
I use the wheel gun for home defense as there is no safety to bother with, its strictly point and shoot
 
.357 = 125g R-P SJHP at 1480fps

10mm = 135g Nosler JHP at 1500fps

I believe history will prove them equal (but I sold my 10).

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Pro Load has addressed the 10mm issue with a 180 gr. GDHP @ 1200 fps, a 155 gr. GDHP @ 1350 fps, and a new 135 gr. NHP @ 1440 fps.

The .357 might be a better stopper, but not by much, and when you do factor in things like capacity, recoil, and that LOUD noise the .357 makes, I can only see the 10mm coming out on top.
 
I have a glock 29, amd a 33 on order(been waiting 6 weeks!).. the 10mm is nice, because you can get mild factory loads, making it feel like a 45, or the full power loads like Win st's. I'm waiting for the 33, so will reserve opinion until I get it. I did used to have a 357 mag revolver, and it kicked pretty good. Supposedly, the 357 sig does not kick as much.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red Bull:
Let's be sure and compare apples to apples. A 4.5 inch barreled .357 mag is comparable to a 6 inch barreled 10mm, because the 10mm uses the chamber as part of the barrel, whereas the .357 does not count the chamber in barrel length.

Out of a 6 inch factory barrel (equivalent to a 4.5 inch revolver barrel), while keeping within pressure limits, a handloaded 10mm can push a 135gr bullet to around 1800 fps and over 900 foot ponds of energy! That is nothing to shake a stick at.
If you want heavier, then 155 grain bullets move at 1500 fps.

I don't know what a .357 Mag can do, but I have not seen it reach those velocities out of a 4.5 inch barrel![/quote]
Except the revolver has the BC gap which drops pressure.
 
From 6 1/2 inch N frames in both 357 Magnum and 10mm (APPLES TO APPLES!), same pressure (33000 CUP) and same bullet weight, the 357 Magnum is faster. I own a pair of each and have run them through the chronograph. On average the 357 Magnum is 70 FPS faster.

BTW: The best known load data available for a 135 grain jacketed bullet is with 14.5 grains of IMR 800X underneath. That will produce a velocity of roughly 1700 FPS and 33000 PSI from a 6" auto or 6 1/2" wheel. Pressure from this powder and a 10mm case do not increase linearly by just adding a few more grain of powder and assume that the pressures will only increase a few more PSI. In order to get 1800 FPS, pressures will be in the +P+ (or more) range. Where is the load data to support that velocity? NOT saying that it can't be done. Just saying that it's a very high pressure load. Not standard!

In the Hodgdon reloading manual they have a pet load of their own for a 357 Magnum. Twenty-two grains of H110 under a 125 grain XTP, good for (They claim!) 1966 FPS and 41400 CUP. Yes, that is from a revolver!

Robert



[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited August 05, 2000).]
 
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