1000+ Yard scopes
- Thread starter FrosSsT
- Start date
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I've never heard of "1x per 25 yards" and the post immediately before yours (made by an experienced 1000 yard shooter) aptly explains why 40x at 1000 yards would be a bad idea
Jim Watson
New member
I'm not as experienced as Kraig but I worked my way up from 10 to 12 to 20 and now to 24X.
That's the advantage of a modern high quality high range variable, he and I could both be happy with my 8.5-25.
That's the advantage of a modern high quality high range variable, he and I could both be happy with my 8.5-25.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I love magnification. I have and do use power from 25, 32, even 40x at 100 yards. 1000 is a different animal.
As to looking up your claim, Skimp, no thank you. You made a claim that contradicts experienced shooters. If you want to show where you got your information, YOU can look it up.
As to looking up your claim, Skimp, no thank you. You made a claim that contradicts experienced shooters. If you want to show where you got your information, YOU can look it up.
+ 1 Kraig
Aside from mirage a lot of scopes' glass tend to get fuzzy around the periphery of the lens at high magnification and can create a sort of tunnel vision. That's just one more PITA to deal with.
Skimp: I think your Google Fu is weak. The old standby is 1x per 100 yards.
Aside from mirage a lot of scopes' glass tend to get fuzzy around the periphery of the lens at high magnification and can create a sort of tunnel vision. That's just one more PITA to deal with.
Skimp: I think your Google Fu is weak. The old standby is 1x per 100 yards.
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I use a fixed power 10x Bushell Elite 3200 ... it has a mil-dot reticule and easily adjustable turrets with either 80 or 100 MOA of total vertical travel ... I forget. It returns to zero reliably and I have been happy with it in just about every way. I figure that it is easier to make a quality fixed power scope for a given price than it is a variable power scope and 10X seems adequate to see well at just about any range from 40 to 1000+.
Never tried anything other than my spotting scope at higher mag, but that one sure sees the mirage (helpful to read the wind), so I'm inclined to believe the distinguished shooter in WY ... as though that were the only reason
...
Saands
Never tried anything other than my spotting scope at higher mag, but that one sure sees the mirage (helpful to read the wind), so I'm inclined to believe the distinguished shooter in WY ... as though that were the only reason
... Saands
Jim Watson
New member
Just wondering, what target and position are you folks shooting at 1000 yards that a 10X scope seems ample?
I shoot F class and at 24X am quite comfortable unless the mirage gets very bad. In which case, reducing power makes it less obvious, but it doesn't go away.
I shoot F class and at 24X am quite comfortable unless the mirage gets very bad. In which case, reducing power makes it less obvious, but it doesn't go away.
When we shoot at extended ranges, it is in a hilly area where the only long shots are across canyons. We have hauled 12" gongs out there ... but it is a LOT of work to do it right. Usually we take turns finding rocks that are 1-2 MOA across and 800-1000 yds out and challenging the other guy to hit it. I always try to get in a prone position, but sometimes it just doesn't happen and I have to improvise. In our "rules" we always allow the use of a laser for ranging, but there are no free fouling shots or practice shots to read the wind with a bullet ... that would spoil a good part of the challenge. I have never formally competed at that range, this is really just a nice way to educate yourself and have some fun in the process. I'm always amazed how much time you spend thinking and how few rounds you actually send downrange ... maybe 15 to 20 shots in 3-4 hours. I have felt completely humbled by the wind in open air 500 feet above a canyon floor, but I have never felt limited by my 10x scope. One nice thing, though ... after you get your technique so that you are making pretty consistently solid shots at 925, shots at 400 feel pretty reasonable 
Saands
Saands
Besides mirage between you and the target, you have heat coming off the barrel.
Mirage is your friend, as it gives you an indication of wind direction and velocity.
With the lighter powered scopes, 8 - 12 X, you can offset the mirage caused by heat off the barrel with a barrel band (sometimes called a heat band, heat deflector, or other names).
With extremely high power scopes, even with a barrel band, you are still going to see heat from the barrel. This gives you a false reading.
Another problem with the higher power scopes is, as mentioned, is you wash out the target. Its gonna be "fuzzy" any way, you don't want it so you cant see it.
Why is the target fuzzy, even with a 8 - 10 power scope? Simple, you don't focus on the target, you focus the scope between 1/2 to 2/3s from you and the target. Doing that , you can use the mirage for what its for, that being determining wind direction and velocity.
When focused on the target, you loose the ability to read mirage. PLUS, if you screw up a bit, and get the scope focused beyond the target, you reverse the mirage. Meaning if you are reading a left to right mirage, but your scope is focused beyond the target, you end up with the mirage appearing to be running from right to left. That's gonna cost you big time.
I have no ideal why focusing beyond the target reverses mirage, but it does. I found that out the hard way when I attended the NGB All Guard Coaching Clinic. Couldn't figure out why everyone else was reading X MPH wind one direction and I was getting the same X MPH only the the other direction.
It's embarrassing when the stop shooting and gather all the would be coaches behind your target and use you as an example of what not to do.
I know we are discussing rifle scopes but I'll add a bit about spotting scopes.
When I was coaching the AK NG Rifle Team, I used a 100 MM team scope. It came with several eye pieces, from 16 - 32. 20 or 24 is the best for reading mirage in a spotting scope (remember this isn't mounted on the rifle). My idiot shooters, like some here figured bigger is better, and would stick in the 32X eye piece. I finely stuck in the 20X eye piece and trashed the others.
You can't see bullet holes at 1000 yards anyway, and it don't take much of a scope to see the 3 or 6 inch spotting disk used to mark the location of your bullet holes.
Others have different ideals. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, The way I do it, in NRA 1000 yard shooting is, I still use my spotting scope for reading conditions and use the 10X (mentioned above) for shooting. Even if you don't use the rifle scope for reading mirage, you still need a barrel band.
Last weekend I worked as an RO for another rifle forum's Sniper Challenge.
I use a cheap pair of Bushnell 10X50 field glasses for spotting hits or misses. Even though they are cheap, the are extremely clear. I could read mirage better then most of the shooters and their high dollar scopes. I could see a boil and know if the shooter was going to miss by shooting in a boil.
I also didn't have any problem seeing the 6 to 8 inch diamond targets we were using.
Never shoot in a boil, a boil doesn't mean "no wind", a boil means its shifting and shifting right now. There is no such thing as NO WIND.
If you're using a extremely high powered scope (like 40x someone mentioned) and its focused on the target, you're going to miss the boil. If its focused to read mirage, then you wont be able to see a 6 or 8 inch target at 1000 + yards.
This is easy to check. Take your spotting scope and observe a small target at 1000 or so yards. Lets say you have a 16-60 variable scope. Put it one 60X and observe the target. If its not washed out by mirage, you wont be able to read mirage. If its focused to read mirage at mid to two thirds range, you're target will be too washed out to see.
Mirage is your friend, as it gives you an indication of wind direction and velocity.
With the lighter powered scopes, 8 - 12 X, you can offset the mirage caused by heat off the barrel with a barrel band (sometimes called a heat band, heat deflector, or other names).
With extremely high power scopes, even with a barrel band, you are still going to see heat from the barrel. This gives you a false reading.
Another problem with the higher power scopes is, as mentioned, is you wash out the target. Its gonna be "fuzzy" any way, you don't want it so you cant see it.
Why is the target fuzzy, even with a 8 - 10 power scope? Simple, you don't focus on the target, you focus the scope between 1/2 to 2/3s from you and the target. Doing that , you can use the mirage for what its for, that being determining wind direction and velocity.
When focused on the target, you loose the ability to read mirage. PLUS, if you screw up a bit, and get the scope focused beyond the target, you reverse the mirage. Meaning if you are reading a left to right mirage, but your scope is focused beyond the target, you end up with the mirage appearing to be running from right to left. That's gonna cost you big time.
I have no ideal why focusing beyond the target reverses mirage, but it does. I found that out the hard way when I attended the NGB All Guard Coaching Clinic. Couldn't figure out why everyone else was reading X MPH wind one direction and I was getting the same X MPH only the the other direction.
It's embarrassing when the stop shooting and gather all the would be coaches behind your target and use you as an example of what not to do.
I know we are discussing rifle scopes but I'll add a bit about spotting scopes.
When I was coaching the AK NG Rifle Team, I used a 100 MM team scope. It came with several eye pieces, from 16 - 32. 20 or 24 is the best for reading mirage in a spotting scope (remember this isn't mounted on the rifle). My idiot shooters, like some here figured bigger is better, and would stick in the 32X eye piece. I finely stuck in the 20X eye piece and trashed the others.
You can't see bullet holes at 1000 yards anyway, and it don't take much of a scope to see the 3 or 6 inch spotting disk used to mark the location of your bullet holes.
Others have different ideals. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, The way I do it, in NRA 1000 yard shooting is, I still use my spotting scope for reading conditions and use the 10X (mentioned above) for shooting. Even if you don't use the rifle scope for reading mirage, you still need a barrel band.
Last weekend I worked as an RO for another rifle forum's Sniper Challenge.
I use a cheap pair of Bushnell 10X50 field glasses for spotting hits or misses. Even though they are cheap, the are extremely clear. I could read mirage better then most of the shooters and their high dollar scopes. I could see a boil and know if the shooter was going to miss by shooting in a boil.
I also didn't have any problem seeing the 6 to 8 inch diamond targets we were using.
Never shoot in a boil, a boil doesn't mean "no wind", a boil means its shifting and shifting right now. There is no such thing as NO WIND.
If you're using a extremely high powered scope (like 40x someone mentioned) and its focused on the target, you're going to miss the boil. If its focused to read mirage, then you wont be able to see a 6 or 8 inch target at 1000 + yards.
This is easy to check. Take your spotting scope and observe a small target at 1000 or so yards. Lets say you have a 16-60 variable scope. Put it one 60X and observe the target. If its not washed out by mirage, you wont be able to read mirage. If its focused to read mirage at mid to two thirds range, you're target will be too washed out to see.
impalacustom
New member
Spend the money on the glass not the power, you will be much happier. Also remember you can always turn your scope down but never up beyond it's max.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I agree, and I use a ton of magnification at much closer distances. That's why I'd choose a 10-40 very high end (like USOptics) if I had unlimited funds.
I just wouldn't tell somebody that 40x is ok for 1000 yards, without qualification.
I just wouldn't tell somebody that 40x is ok for 1000 yards, without qualification.
I've researched this to death (both online and borrowing/checking out other rifles at the range), and with a "sub 5k budget" from my wife/CFO, chose a USO SN-3 TPAL 5-25x for my long range scope. I have a hard time SEEING the difference between Premier, SB, Zeiss, and US Optics - and just preferred this scope for it's reticle, turrets, quality of construction, and overall clarity.
I know there are people that will say SB or nothing, but after checking them all out and comparing the features, it's tough to pass on the USO scopes.
Just my $0.02
I know there are people that will say SB or nothing, but after checking them all out and comparing the features, it's tough to pass on the USO scopes.
Just my $0.02
I haven't shot my rifles past 100 yds at a range, I have shot up to 300 yds at deer,( with mixed results
) and I think that my 4x12x40 VXII, would be decent to shoot maybe 500 yds,,,, for me, my eyesight is not good enough to be frittering all my ammo away, even though I would relish the thought of shooting 500 yds someday, with all my rifles.
) and I think that my 4x12x40 VXII, would be decent to shoot maybe 500 yds,,,, for me, my eyesight is not good enough to be frittering all my ammo away, even though I would relish the thought of shooting 500 yds someday, with all my rifles.