100 grain bullet in a 7.7 Jap case?

M

M88

New member
Bought a Lee 311-100 mold for making 32S&W bullets. I plan to powder coat the bullets in a toaster oven. 7.7x58 Jap rounds being so hard to find even pre-Covid, and next to impossible far as I've seen lately, I was wondering what would happen is I parked that small 100 grain .311 bullet on a 7.7 Jap case. Would it even chamber right being shorter? Would the velocity be so high that it would wear the barrel that much faster? I have a couple "last ditch" Arisaka's that I'm reticent to shoot, but also several war time 99's in good condition.

I appreciate any input, since I consider myself still a reloading "newbie".
 
I can't imagine much of that 100gr pill would make it out of the barrel unless you have a gas check.

What a feller might do, is see if a "gallery load" recipe exists. Again, I wouldn't know where to start, but I suspect it would involve some dacron, toilet paper, and/or cream of wheat. Good luck
 
A 100 gr bullet in a 7.7 would be for a very very light load at low velocity, not a lot more than the .32 pistol it came from. A coated bullet at, say, 1000 fps is not going to wear the barrel.
 
Ok, so a 100gr lead pistol bullet in the 7.7 Jap ??

Will work. Round will go bang, bullet will exit barrel. Beyond that no guarantees and is dependent on many specific factors.

Take a look in your loading data for the Speer "plinker" or the Hornady version in .30 cal. I've used both in .30-06, .308, and even .30-30.

this will give you some idea what can be done, they can go smokin fast. Accuracy, on the other hand is another matter.

You could drive a light bullet really fast from a 7.7mm Arisaka...

DON"T DO THAT! with the bullet you mention. Lead, no matter what it is coated with, is still lead, and not a copper jacket.

AT lead bullet velocities, the bullet you are considering should upset enough to compensate for a small difference between the bullet and the bore size, so accuracy might be decent. But drive that lead bullet too fast, and it can "strip" through the rifling, resulting in really poor accuracy and likely heavy leading in the barrel (which also ruins accuracy, and is a pain in the butt to clean out).

The short bullets, seated properly generally feed well enough in a bolt action.

In a nutshell, your cast pistol bullet can go through the rifle barrel ok but don't try to exceed cast bullet speeds or you will most likely have disappointing results and some hard chores.

Plinker, "gallery" and short range small game, that bullet should do fine at the proper speed (or less). Don't try to make it into a 3,000fps+ screamin varmint round. While the case has the capacity and rifle has the strength, its just NOT the right bullet to use for that, and I promise you won't be happy with it when you push it beyond its capabilities.

A purpose made jacketed 100gr bullet can take the high speed, a lead pistol bullet should not be put in that situation.
 
You might have a problem with the shoulder on the case being hammered back by the firing pin and there not being enough pressure to expand it back out.

I have the same mold and currently I only use it for cat sneeze loads for my .300 Blackout. With the alloy I'm using they drop at .310" and 86g.

I've loaded cast bullet loads for the Arisaka and it's not any more trouble than loading for the .303 Brit or .308 Win. It wouldn't hurt to get a copy of either the Lyman or RCBS cast bullet manual. I have both because I found them cheap on eBay a long time ago...

Tony
 
THANK you 44... and Geez...this is why I jump on here before doing something I'm not sure of. My end result was never to increase the speed, I was just wanting to know if using bullets from that mold will even work well enough to go bang without unpleasant consequences. Apparently they will, but if I understand correctly, it will likely leave lead in my Arisaka barrel, and perhaps not be very accurate. A good buddy of mine, also a gun guy who reloads mostly 30-06 and 45 Colt, said if I push that small lead bullet to fast, it may distort going down the barrel, with obviously inaccurate consequences. Not sure how that would happen, I don't know enough about ballistics. At any rate, I've decided not to even try it.
 
... and yes good to know that if I keep it under 1000fps, it won't wear the barrel. Actually that I already figured.
 
The Type 99 Arisaka had a chromed bore so there's even less likely that you will ever wear it out. Years ago when I first tried cast bullets in mine, I pushed them too fast and leaded up the bore really bad. It wasn't all that hard to clean it out but it looked like the inside of a sewer pipe after I had been shooting...

I don't shoot mine nearly as much as I used to. They're pretty good rifles and way underrated...

Tony
 
A guy I knew many years ago did something similar to this with a 308. He cast 110 gr M1 Carbine bullets and loaded them in his 1909 Argenting barreled in 308. It leaded the barrel so completely that you could not see rifling in the bore. It was a relatively light load, he did not intend to go very fast, but with the longer barrel he got too much speed, plus I imagine his alloy was too soft. Long story short, I got given a lead fouled 308 in exchange for some leather work. So I would say use gas checked bullets if you are going to try that trick.
 
I've tried similar things. It rarely works well.

But, right now, it doesn't matter.
PPU shipments just landed in the US and are now available in many places.
For example, SG Ammo, Grafs, Midsouth, Natchez, and more places currently have 7.7 Jap ammo in stock.
Along with this have come suitable bullets.
 
For 7.7 jap gallery loads I recommend using Berrys plated 123 Gr bullets intended for the 7.62 x 39. I run them with trailboss and they shoot reasonably well.
 
I have a pretty good stash of .311 bullets and years ago I formed a bunch of cases from 06 brass so I'm good. I haven't bought any 7.7x58 live ammo since the 1970s when I first started shooting it...

Tony
 
I went through a bunch of jacketed .32 ACP bullets trying to find a load that my 7.65x53 Mauser would like. It didn't matter how I loaded them, they turned sideways at about 20 feet. I suspect the barrel twist was not compatible with the bullet.

7.7 Arisaka uses the same bullet damerer as .303 British, 7.65 Mauser, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39, 7.65x25, 7.62x25, .32 ACP, and various other .32s.

My older (1960s and 1970s) loading manuals had data for using a .308 neck sizer and .308 bullets, with a note that accuracy would probably suffer.

C&H makes a die to smoosh jacketed .308 bullets up to .311, FYI. It's useful during the periodic shortages of .311 bullets, and lets you make use of the wider array of bullet designs available in .308 caliber.
 
If I ever get around to powder coating bullets, I'm looking forward to trying cast in my 2 Arisaka rifles again. Powder coating will quickly bump up a .308 bullet to .311 or a little larger.

I tried paper patching but I could never get it to work. If I get bored enough later this year, I might try teflon tape patching for the 7.7x58. It's easier and it does work...

Tony
 
Just note that Teflon can rub into toolmarks in the bore. When it was tried as a bore treatment back in the early '90s it was found that its properties change with higher bore temperatures and accuracy suffered. This was accuracy for target shooting purposes, though, and I don't recall numbers, so for deer hunting accuracy, it may be fine.
 
I used Teflon tape on lowish velocity .45-70 loads. It worked well for that but I haven't tried it on other loads.

I still wish I could develop the knack of paper patching. It has a long history of success...

Tony
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top