So what would be the best bullet weight for 1:14 twist 223 rifles in a Ruger 77 rifle produced in the late 90s? I thought I had bought a used 1:12 twist rifle but after a little more research I think I have a 1:14 gun. I've been shooting some Remington 45 grain SP reloads but I'd like to find a more accurate load for this gun and would love some suggestions about bullets.
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1:14 twist Ruger 223 Model 77s
- Thread starter rc
- Start date
bamaranger
New member
Ruger
My 77V is in 22-250 but I think is twisted 1-14" . Not an apples to apples comparison, but 52 gr MHP's from Sierra when I can find them, or Hornady (easier to find) shoot bugholes.
The 40-45 grain V-Max has been a good bullet in my MiniMauser in .223, which I think is 1-12". I had to really play with seating depth on those stubby bullets. Surprisingly the 52MHP yielded very low velocity in that rifle and I left went lighter weight for more fps.
My 77V is in 22-250 but I think is twisted 1-14" . Not an apples to apples comparison, but 52 gr MHP's from Sierra when I can find them, or Hornady (easier to find) shoot bugholes.
The 40-45 grain V-Max has been a good bullet in my MiniMauser in .223, which I think is 1-12". I had to really play with seating depth on those stubby bullets. Surprisingly the 52MHP yielded very low velocity in that rifle and I left went lighter weight for more fps.
Measure the twist, its not difficult to do. All you need is a cleaning rod, patch a tape measure and something to mark the rod with.
patch the rod so the rod is turned by the rifling when pushed through the bore. Mark the rod near the handle end so you can see it. Mark the rod at the muzzle. Push the rod down the bore until the mark by the handle makes one full revolution. Then mark the rod at the muzzle, again.
Remove the rod and measure the distance between the muzzle marks. That's your twist rate.
I don't have a listing for the model 77 .223 twist, sorry. The common bolt gun twists for .22 varmint guns of the era were 1-12" or 1-14".
Either twist will do fine with 55gr and lighter bullets.
Ruger Mini 14 is listed in a 1974 book as having a 1-10" twist. Measure for yourself, or call Ruger and ask them what they used in the M77 in those days.
patch the rod so the rod is turned by the rifling when pushed through the bore. Mark the rod near the handle end so you can see it. Mark the rod at the muzzle. Push the rod down the bore until the mark by the handle makes one full revolution. Then mark the rod at the muzzle, again.
Remove the rod and measure the distance between the muzzle marks. That's your twist rate.
I don't have a listing for the model 77 .223 twist, sorry. The common bolt gun twists for .22 varmint guns of the era were 1-12" or 1-14".
Either twist will do fine with 55gr and lighter bullets.
Ruger Mini 14 is listed in a 1974 book as having a 1-10" twist. Measure for yourself, or call Ruger and ask them what they used in the M77 in those days.
Jim Watson
New member
The .222, .222 Magnum, and .22-250 varmint rifles had 14" twists before the Army got involved. Factory standard for .222 was a 50 gr flat base spitzer, for .222 Magnum and .22-250 a 55 gr flat base spitzer. There is always a margin, 52 gr boattails and 53 gr flat base shoot just fine in the 222s. My .22-250 will shoot SOME 60 gr bullets but it won't handle the longer ones.
The Army went to a 12 twist for 55 gr FMJ boattails.
There is a lot of Internet Lore that says a 14 twist is only good for maybe 45 grain bullets but that just isn't so.
The Army went to a 12 twist for 55 gr FMJ boattails.
There is a lot of Internet Lore that says a 14 twist is only good for maybe 45 grain bullets but that just isn't so.
i have a ruger 77mkII VBZ...blued receiver, hammer forged 26" stainless barrel, laminated stock...i got it new in the early 90's...it is a amazingly accurate rifle
it really likes the flat based hornady 52gr match hollow points...the 53gr sierra bt match stuff too...but the flat base hornady stuff does shoot better...with H4198.....it is zeroed at 175yrds...i have a couple targets around here that have 5 shots at that range that a dime covers very easily with room to spare....back in the old days in ohio when the neighbor and me were cleaning up the pigs for the local farmers...the pigs feared us...ahahahahaaa...got so bad we would only get a shot or two and the pigs were in for the day....ahahahhaaa...so off to another farm for another shot or two...lol....ahhhh...those were the days
i always though it was a 12 twist...but maybe not...never checked it...could be a 14 twist....all i know is, it will put them all in the same hole and it has taken hundreds of whistle pigs...and a few yotes along the way
put those 52-53gr bullets in your rifle and load for it and im sure it will be a shooter too
my .02
ocharry
it really likes the flat based hornady 52gr match hollow points...the 53gr sierra bt match stuff too...but the flat base hornady stuff does shoot better...with H4198.....it is zeroed at 175yrds...i have a couple targets around here that have 5 shots at that range that a dime covers very easily with room to spare....back in the old days in ohio when the neighbor and me were cleaning up the pigs for the local farmers...the pigs feared us...ahahahahaaa...got so bad we would only get a shot or two and the pigs were in for the day....ahahahhaaa...so off to another farm for another shot or two...lol....ahhhh...those were the days
i always though it was a 12 twist...but maybe not...never checked it...could be a 14 twist....all i know is, it will put them all in the same hole and it has taken hundreds of whistle pigs...and a few yotes along the way
put those 52-53gr bullets in your rifle and load for it and im sure it will be a shooter too
my .02
ocharry
Having done a number of tests with the two 40gr's from Nosler & the 40gr Hornady VMax in my Rem 700 Classic (1:12 I think?), I found the Hornady to come out on top by a small but consistent margin.
The Hornady 40gr VMax is an outstanding bullet, esp. considering the reasonable price.
The Hornady 40gr VMax is an outstanding bullet, esp. considering the reasonable price.
Remember, it's bullet LENGTH that really matters. But generally speaking, heavier is longer. But there are lots of exceptions. A high BC 55 gr bullet could be as long or longer than some 60 gr bullets.
That twist is intended for common 55 gr or lighter bullets but that doesn't mean it won't shoot heavier bullets acceptably. It probably won't work well with 70-90 gr bullets, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does well with 60-62 gr bullets.
You just have to experiment. Just remember that often bullets that are heavier than recommended for a certain twist do fine at close to moderate ranges. You may find some heavier bullets that shoot good groups at 100-200 yards, but accuracy fall off the table at longer ranges. If you're not shooting long range then the heavies may work OK for you.
That twist is intended for common 55 gr or lighter bullets but that doesn't mean it won't shoot heavier bullets acceptably. It probably won't work well with 70-90 gr bullets, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does well with 60-62 gr bullets.
You just have to experiment. Just remember that often bullets that are heavier than recommended for a certain twist do fine at close to moderate ranges. You may find some heavier bullets that shoot good groups at 100-200 yards, but accuracy fall off the table at longer ranges. If you're not shooting long range then the heavies may work OK for you.
I looked up my serial number, got a ship date of 97 and model number. Found an add with matching model that claimed 1:14 twist with 4 shot mag, brown laminate which fits the description of mine perfectly. I didn't realize 223 Model 77s from the 90s could have 1:14 twist when I bought it used maybe 10 years ago with a Leupold AO scope for less than $800. I have no idea how much it was shot before I got it. I have a newer stainless Hawkeye model with the black plastic stock from around 2010 that has a 1:9 twist and it shoots Sierra 65's fantastically and is OK with 55 soft points but lousy with Hornady 68 or 75 HPs and the 45 grain Remington SP. I would like to find a an accuracy load for this older gun with maybe a 50 to 53 grain frangible bullet that will deliver 1/2 inch 100 yard groups. Not sure if flat base is better than boat tail out to 150 to 200 yards. I have H4198 on hand and Remington 7.5 primers and appreciate the feedback for bullet selection especially from those who have played with this twist rate. An accurate 222 or 222 magnum bullet is probably about what this gun needs.
Time marches on and 97 is almost 30 years ago, and even though the long heavy bullets were beginning to be around then, they weren't as popular as they have become since, and plus, bolt actions were considered varmint guns, and kept their original twist rates for some time after the semis were made with faster twists.
I'd say this depends very much on the rifle, the specific bullet, and what you consider "acceptable".
I have an early 80s vintage Win M70 Varmint .22-250 1-14" twist. Back then the "heavy" .22 bullet was 63gr, the Sierra "semi spitzer", and was the "deer bullet" for .22 centerfire (where legal, of course).
I got a few boxes on a trade deal, and eventually tested some.
My rifle shoots 55gr into about an inch at 100, sometimes a little better maybe 3/4" when I'm having a good day. The 52/53gr match bullets go 3/4" and once in a while 1/2".
The best I ever got shooting those 63gr Sierras was 2". Good enough for deer, not quite good enough for small varmints.
Depending on the bullet your rifle might do that well, might not.
That twist is intended for common 55 gr or lighter bullets but that doesn't mean it won't shoot heavier bullets acceptably. It probably won't work well with 70-90 gr bullets, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does well with 60-62 gr bullets.
I'd say this depends very much on the rifle, the specific bullet, and what you consider "acceptable".
I have an early 80s vintage Win M70 Varmint .22-250 1-14" twist. Back then the "heavy" .22 bullet was 63gr, the Sierra "semi spitzer", and was the "deer bullet" for .22 centerfire (where legal, of course).
I got a few boxes on a trade deal, and eventually tested some.
My rifle shoots 55gr into about an inch at 100, sometimes a little better maybe 3/4" when I'm having a good day. The 52/53gr match bullets go 3/4" and once in a while 1/2".
The best I ever got shooting those 63gr Sierras was 2". Good enough for deer, not quite good enough for small varmints.
Depending on the bullet your rifle might do that well, might not.
Jim Watson
New member
My 14 twist .22-250 shot the blunt 70 gr Speer pretty well.
I tried the 70 grain in 1:9 and the pressure seemed a bit high. I bet depending on the bearing surface, the twist can have a lot of influence on pressure curves. I don't have any left to try in this 1:14 gun and am really wanting this gun to be my choice for 45 to 55 grain pills anyway. 65's seem to be a sweet spot for 1:9.
A lot of those old rifles were trying to maximize speed. So a slow twist shooting light bullets gave varmint hunters what they wanted. I think you'll be pleased staying in the 45-55 grain range, but you might be able to go as high as 64 grain semi-point spitzer bullets (SMP). The easiest SMP bullet to find right now is the Nosler Bonded Performance 64 grain, the Sierra 63 grain SMP is another good bullet for slow twist barrels.
A lot of those old rifles were trying to maximize speed. So a slow twist shooting light bullets gave varmint hunters what they wanted.
Adjust your viewer for the time frame being viewed. Back when those old rifles were new rifles, they were shooting standard weight bullets through barrels with standard rate twists.
Also remember that the most people shooting .22 centerfires were varmint hunters or some farmer/rancher doing pest control.
Yes, they were trying to maximize speed, more speed =flatter trajectory=more easily usable range.
Shoot your Ruger 77 with 50-55gr bullets and see what it does. If you have them, shoot some heavier slugs too, and see if the results are acceptable to you. They could be, but I wouldn't expect the same degree of accuracy as the lighter bullets deliver.
That being said, every rifle can behave slightly differently, and the only way to know if what you have follows the general pattern or if it is an exception is to shoot it to find out.
44 AMP said:Adjust your viewer for the time frame being viewed. Back when those old rifles were new rifles, they were shooting standard weight bullets through barrels with standard rate twists.
I fully understand what you're saying, but fast twist 5.56X45 rifles had been around for nearly 20 years by 1997. I'm also positive 70+ grain HPBT match bullets were around by then. My first .223 I bought when I came home from the Army in 1996 was an H&R Handi rifle with a 1:12 twist. I was reloading for it around 1998 when I bought my first press.
I remember buying a box of 77 grain HPBT Sierra Match Kings to try. I learned all about keyholes for the first time and why I needed to pay attention to twist rates. I was working for a rancher and also farming at that time, using the .223 for coyotes and praire dogs mainly. I also didn't chronograph back then, but I was loading to max book and I liked what 45-50 grain bullets did to prairie dogs better than the 55-63 grain bullets did.
I got exactly what I wanted from a slow twist rifle running light bullets. A lot of red mist in dog towns.
More than 10 years ago I ordered 500 Remington 45 grain Soft points to try and played with gopher loads with blue dot and plinked a bit with them but decided they were a waste of time and loaded the rest up into full power loads. Now I think I'm down to my last 40 rounds loaded with that bullet but I've got enough 4198 and powder to load a few hundred more rounds if I get some bullets this gun likes. For 65 grain sierras in 1:9 guns I settled on AA2230. I think the 40s are too stubby. I really don't want to have to do a lot of load development with the cost of components these days so a reliable recipe with 50 to 55 grain bullets is where I hope to start.
I fully understand what you're saying, but fast twist 5.56X45 rifles had been around for nearly 20 years by 1997.
1974 Speer manual, in the reference section lists the Ruger Mini-14 as having a 1-10" twist. Colt AR had a 1-12". Bolt guns were normally either 1-12" or 1-14".
Another point to consider is that back in the 70s, the AR wasn't the precision rifle it is today. Back then, if you wanted the most precision practical, you shot a bolt gun, generally a decent varmint model bolt gun.
And that market hasn't completely gone away, even now.
i might also point out that my rifle has a very long throat..you might want to check that on your rifle...i couldnt get the 45gr bullets to work..well let me rephrase..i didnt like using them because i had very little bullet in the case neck...so i didnt try very hard to get them to fly
oh but the 52-53gr weight class bullets worked very well
oh but the 52-53gr weight class bullets worked very well
44 AMP said:1974 Speer manual, in the reference section lists the Ruger Mini-14 as having a 1-10" twist. Colt AR had a 1-12". Bolt guns were normally either 1-12" or 1-14".
I don't know why you're refrencing a reloading manual 25 years prior to the OP's rifle. I understood what you meant by viewing the standard bullets for .223 being the lighter bullets for that cartridge mainly because of the .220 Swift, .22-250 Rem, and .222 Rem all used a 1:12 and 1:14 twist. I simply stated that most varmint hunters still prefered the lighter bullets at higher velocites at the time the rc's rifle was manufactured.
I don't know if rc's rifle is a varmint model or not as I don't remember all Ruger's offerings from 1997 with a laminate stock. I guess my point from bringing up fast twist 5.56X45 rifles, was the military adopted the 1:9 twist in the 70s and the faster 1:7 came shortly after. By the 1980s Remingtonwas selling the M700 PSS with a 1:9 twist while the other model 700 rifles retained the slower 1:12. I remember Savage offering multiple twist rates for the .223 Rem in the late 90s as well depending on model, I'm unsure of other manufacturers.