-06 Handload

C

cptmclark

New member
Howdy,
I have a long throated R.E.M. 700 since about 1980, which has been only moderately accurate. About 1.25 or so. Now I can actually use it for white tails in Indiana so I've gotten enthusiastic about load development.

I've found that I get minimal pressure signs using above normal manual recommendations. I care about safety and examples and so I bother you all for wisdom. Accuracy is 0.65" and gets better with each powder increase. Velocity increases in a normal even way, up to a point well above this load.

Primers show flattening as usual with rounded edges remaining. There are no markings on the neck sized brass, other than light scuffing from the bolt face. Seating and bolt lift are easy.

So that's all the info I can think of, and yes I'm concerned about going above printed max charges. So I will appreciate input from some of you guys with more or different experience than I have.


My rifle loves Sierra's 165 SBT at 2950 fps. This I 4350 load is slightly compressed, and the OACL is longer than book suggestions too. Still close to but not touching the lands because of my he long throat.

Thanks for any interest
 
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Flattened primers aren't a good pressure indication, but you mention "scuffing" of the bolt face. Are you sure the scuffing isn't imprinting of the bolt face on the case head? How much over manual max. are your loads? Personally, I've not experienced better accuracy with hotter loads, mostly lower to mid loads are more accurate for me (and not as hard on my gun and my shoulder).

I've got a theory; if I "need" a higher velocity, more "power" from my loads than I get with "normal" book loads, I'll go to a bigger gun...:D
 
I don't like the scuffing of the bolt face. That tells me you have it loaded to hot. May not be a problem in cooler weather but I wouldn't want to shoot that on a hot summer day.
 
Agree with the above. If you are marking the case head, it's too hot. Now, Sierra measured 2,900 with that bullet and 56 gr IMR-4350, so you're not that much faster. Depends on the rifle, though. I have an old Model of 1917 that sends 150s 50 fps faster than Sierra with a grain less than their max. Of course, I would probably be over spec pressure if I added that grain. And remember, 30-06 is not one of the rounds that is defanged. They're comparing against 60 ksi MAP.

Regards accuracy, sometimes I'm accurate at max, usually a little below, but I had one... I loaded some Woodleigh 160s for my 6.5x55 M70. First set grouped about 2". Next set was looking real good - first two real close. No overt pressure signs. The third shot was real good, too. Unfortunately, I blew out the primer on that one. Only time I've done that. I should have paid more attention to the chrono, which was saying, "Whoa!" Faster than expected.

I don't know how much you're loading, but trouble comes fast over the limit.
 
I would say its time to hold them, drop back a bit.

This is a hunting load. I hunted for 20 years with a 1.5 at best rifle. If yours does 1.25 that is more than good enough out to 400+ yards.

With my 1.5, I grazed one animal because I did not trust my trajectory (we got it in the end)

The rest were one shot kills. Two at 250 yards, both braced. I went with my trajectory and spot on.

If you want to do target and want the small groups, then build that Rem into a Remage.

As I wrote a bit ago, I had a load that was actually under max and saw my first pressure signs. The next one that was barley over, got serious with imprint and blown primer, primer pockets went loose (the blown one would not resize)
 
Wow! Four replies in short order. Thank you.

I'm wondering if my comment about the brass head showing some wear was not as intended. I see some signs of wear on all high power case heads that have been shot several times and assume (there's that word again) that is normal for any brass against steel movement. I don't get markings of any part of the bolt face, but rather a light circular polish which I've always thought was normal use.

Thanks for the replies, and I agree with safety first. Just not sure I'm going above safe.

Sierra I believe uses 26" barrels for the testing and mine is 22. One help is the longer throat and seating means more powder space, but still the book's max is there for a reason. Of course different books have different max powder charge, I suppose due to differences in their gauges, barrels, etc.

"Don't ever go over a book max" is a safe way to think, and I appreciate your replies.
 
About 1.25" at 100? That's a long way from moderately.
"...using above normal manual recommendations..." That is unsafe. Manual data is not a recommendation either. Mind you, 2950 FPS isn't that far above Max. Quite likely that another manual or different powder lot will give that kind of velocity. That does not make going over publish Max loads safe. Kind of surprised you're seeing flattened primers. SAAMI max pressure is 60,000 PSI. Max Hodgdon loads are under that. Blue Pill loads are about 10,000 PSI higher.
"...IMR4350 load is slightly compressed..." Compressed loads are nothing to worry about. The Max load for a 165 is 60.0(C). Compression will start long before the powder charge gets to the Max load.
The OAL thing isn't anything to worry about either. The off-the-lands stuff will usually be longer than published OAL's.
"...barrels for the testing..." Probably not a rifle either. Most of 'em use a Universal receiver. Velocities will be slightly different anyway. Different powder lot, primer, rifling twist, etc. Velocities are not as important as accuracy anyway.
 
If as you say, 60.0 I4350 is not over some book max, that's where I am. My books don't go that high.
2950 from a 24 in bbl is more than I've had before. Nice flat shooting load, and the bullet on game is very effective.
 
I have a rifle that shoots extremely well at 1.5grs over book max without any signs of pressure. Since the "book" values are relative guidelines and we are told each gun is an entity to itself there are going to be guns that can be safely shot over "book max" values and then there are situations like my Win Mod 70 which shows high pressure signs a full grain under "book max", so of course I backed the load down. The only reason I am over "max" with my one rifle is because it kept getting smaller groups as the charge went up. Of course I approached that very, very carefully. I am not recommending anyone go over any book max, rather I am relating my experiences only. When we are touching off 75,000 lbs/sq in next to our cheeks it pays to be extremely cautious. The book values are most valid for the rifle used and the components selected for the loads. So if any of those factors are changed by you then to a certain degree it is a different animal and one must proceed carefully. Your gun and components may be a safe combination or perhaps not.
 
60 gr of IMR 4350 out of who's data book?

Sierra Gamekings usually require me to back down a gr or 2 from say a Hornady, especially a Berger VLD. Just the nature of the bullet.

This with all the powders i've tested.
As with any load, out of any manual, work up don't just go for max.

Bullet seating depth will have greater influence on group size than powder charge.
 
Hodgdon has data for 30-06 with Sierra 165gr bullet max is 60gr/IMR-4350 @ 2934fps and start load is 56gr/IMR-4350 @ 2746fps. Barrel is 24".

I looked at Sierra data and they used 26" barrel.

Myself I think you got lucky or you seen that load before.

The load I'm posting about has been in Hodgdon manual since 2008 on manuals I have
 
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My last '06 with a 22" barrel would only give 2950 with 150s (Chrongraphed). If your instrumental is 2950 with 165s, you're way over max.
 
Have you tried seating the bullets just shy of the rifling rather than hotting up the load? I have a long throated .308 and I get tighter groups by seating the bullets long...

Tony
 
Yep, I seat the bullets just off the lands, 20 thousandths if I remember. My first worry was that there wasn't a bullet diameter in the neck anymore, but that didn't hurt anything.
 
Another thing that you may consider is using Barnes TSX bullets. Because of it being a solid bullet the bullet has to be longer to match the weight of a copper jacketed bullet. The longer design of the bullet will get you closer to the lands without having to use such a hot load. The rifle and bolt have done their job in you shooting a hot load, but it may not be safe to continue shooting this hot loads because eventually something has to give and I would rather it be a 1 or 2 grain difference than the chamber of the rifle.
 
Please read my post again.

I was 2/10 UNDER book load (though I had not intended to be that high to start with)

I still had clear pressure sings (that ring is the ejector hole marking the case rim and a clear sign of getting to hot, as well as sticky bolt lift.

The next load was just over max, seriously sticky bolt life and one blown primer (and the case would not resize)

So yes, it can happen and it can happen under max depending on the powder, primer, chamber, brass etc.
 
I see what you are saying about more powder is creating better accuracy. This is somewhat common in bolt rifles when the lugs aren't bearing equally.

There is probably some value in having the lugs lapped. That should improve things. The real fix is fitting an oversized bolt and trying the action....then you go down the rabbit hole!

So, I would keep increasing my charge or accept 0.65" groups. That is a heck of a group from a hunting rifle.
 
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