West Virginia teen arrested for wearing NRA shirt to school

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Double naught don't buy into this. As I mentioned above if this were a National Press Club t-shirt no one would have batted an eye. These are both organizations formed to fight for a specific part of the bill of rights.
Yes I know right now guns and schools are a sensitive issue. The reason it is a more sensitive issue than any number of first amendment issues, some of them involving deaths, is because of the focus of the national press, not because they don't exist.

This is not about a minor political cause. This is about our founding document, and there should never be a time that supporting that founding document quietly on a shirt is "disruptive". Disrupting what? Your effort to minimize and destroy the rights in the document?

When you put down into words that you cannot wear a shirt supporting our system of government. Then I will buy this being inappropriate. Of course no one will admit to this, so this point is moot.

You can't ban a shirt that you are supposed to be teaching the concepts set forth upon it. Your textbooks are supposed to cover and endorse this concept for heavens sake!
 
If the kids in the cafeteria were cheering his name as the teacher took him to the office for refusing to remove the "offending" shirt, then it would seem to me that they were either 1) cheering him for standing up for our rights, or 2) cheering him for standing up to the teacher (seems more likely, odds are a teacher like that isn't real popular with the kids).

Makes me wonder if the teacher included the phrase "and your little dog too!"
 
I wonder if there are any student photos from that day which show other types if t-shirts being worn without hassle. Even using the broader policy statement what proof us there his shirt was offensive or disruptive, except as the teacher made it so? I agree there should be consideration of whether the teacher was the one being disruptive by his BEHAVIOR versus a student minding his own business wearing a printed T.
 
Somehow, the administration decided that the NRA promotes violence. That is the ONLY rule violation I can see (from the idjit's perspective since the NRA does nothing of the sort).

I am thinking the NRA's legal counsel needs to get involved and put a stop to it.
 
We'll see one way or the other. We do have a system for this, methods for redressing grievances, etc.

First telling bit of news will come from the DA and if they are going to charge the kid and if so what charge they file.

After that it will come down to what is done, who get's sued and the outcome of such things.

I hope the news continues to follow this, I can't wait for the next episode :D
 
This is not about a minor political cause. This is about our founding document, and there should never be a time that supporting that founding document quietly on a shirt is "disruptive". Disrupting what? Your effort to minimize and destroy the rights in the document?
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LOL, this isn't about any founding documents. This is about a kid's behavior who refused to do as he was told in school by an adult charged with his supervision. He wore a shirt that a faculty member found to be inappropriate and refused to do as instructed to remedy the situation. It doesn't matter what was on the shirt or what type of shirt this was. Once the student refused (and repeatedly from what is described), the problem occurred.

Note that the school did not have him arrested. They did call the cops. It was up to the cops as to whether or not they made an arrest. They chose to do so. Last I checked, calling the cops with a complaint is not a liable act unless performed illegally. I see no valid argument that such was the case.
 
DNS said:
LOL, this isn't about any founding documents. This is about a kid's behavior who refused to do as he was told in school by an adult charged with his supervision. He wore a shirt that a faculty member found to be inappropriate and refused to do as instructed to remedy the situation. It doesn't matter what was on the shirt or what type of shirt this was. Once the student refused (and repeatedly from what is described), the problem occurred.
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There has to be a reasonable standard. It doesn't matter what was on the shirt, it matters whether a reasonable person would think it "disruptive". What if this faculty member found little cloth alligators on the left breast of shirts to be inappropriate? Maybe just red shirts?

I'd virtually guarantee that this is another result of the same asinine "Zero Tolerance" policies that result in 13 year old girls getting suspended for sharing Midol. "Zero Tolerance" is another way of saying "We can't trust these educated folks to make reasonable decisions so we must default to the "safest" possible position which requires no common sense to implement." Such policies create an environment where the question becomes "How can I find a reason that "Object X" violates the rules." rather than the common-sense "Is it reasonable to believe that "Object X" is a problem."

Common sense has been so obliterated from our society that I'm not even sure the average person still has the ability to use logical problem solving skills to make decisions.
 
I agree that this may not be about the NRA , bill of rights or even a shirt .It's about being able to say no to someone that ask you to do something that has no legal , moral or ethical foundation . Am I hearing people saying if a teacher tells you to do something you must comply no matter what ?

I can't imagine anyone saying that , so where is the great line in the sand that we all can see and reference . IMO the teacher was wrong to ask him to remove and or what ever the shirt . There fore any and all things that happened after was a result of the teachers actions making the disruption the fault of the teacher .
 
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LOL, this isn't about any founding documents.
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Sure it is, It's absolutely a matter of denying a person his right to express himself about the 2nd Amendment, by way of the 1st. No more, no less.

This is about a kid's behavior who refused to do as he was told in school by an adult charged with his supervision. He wore a shirt that a faculty member found to be inappropriate and refused to do as instructed to remedy the situation.
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And the: Kid, Parents, and according to the reports, even the other students disagree with the degree the shirt was not "appropriate" Thus the challenge.

There are rules in place in schools, businesses, and pretty much everywhere that are unreasonable, unconstitutional, or even illegal, if nobody challenges them, they remain so.

It doesn't matter what was on the shirt or what type of shirt this was.
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It matters a great deal...

There has to be a reasonable standard. It doesn't matter what was on the shirt, it matters whether a reasonable person would think it "disruptive". What if this faculty member found little cloth alligators on the left breast of shirts to be inappropriate? Maybe just red shirts?
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That "reasonable standard" is what is going to be tested here.
I, personally, am glad to see that I am not the only one who raises their children to defend their rights at all costs.
 
DNS, if the school system's published rules did not explicitly ban that sort of shirt, then your argument becomes solely one of "do whatever the teacher says to do."

That may sometimes be true, and yes the schools have in loco parentis responsibilities.

However, it is not always true, and it is not necessarily true. And, since this student had gone all through his morning classes without issue, it would seem the issue was with the teacher in the cafeteria, in particular.

As others have noted, that teacher chose to initiate the confrontation in that particular venue; that teacher could have waited, or asked the student to come with him someplace more private for a quick discussion, or asked the principal to come to the cafeteria and provide guidance. Instead, that teacher opted to pursue things as we have read.

So, that teacher is kind of an idiot, and I suspect that doing everything that teacher says to do could result in problems of their own.
 
Anybody else get from the news reports that the teacher asked the student to take the shirt off, rather than turn it inside out, have him go home etc. All the news reports seem to agree on this. I have a problem with a random teacher asking my child to disrobe considering the inappropriate student teacher "interactions" ,so to speak, we've seen lately.

Double naught, you're sure welcome to your own opinion on this but about the time that silent, written, restrained, support of our bill of rights is something that can be suppressed in any taxpayer funded institution I feel pretty strongly that said institution should be examined closely, with an eye towards replacing it with something that will support our continued freedom.

In this case it looks like corrective action is already taking place. But let me make myself clear. If this were my kid in my school district and the administration backed this play without the school board cleaning house as a result. I would round up as many like minded individuals as possible and we would make a strong effort to clean out the school board itself, then gut the administration as needed from there.

I spent hours volunteering in my kids schools every year. I wouldn't have had a problem spending them as a part of the School board if needed.

If all this, as well as my previous posts on this seem hard nosed or even mean this is one of the few ways you can trigger that sort of reaction in me.

As far as I'm concerned these schools are not doing all that well teaching the core topics by any reasonable measure.
If you are wasting my child's precious class room time to try to brainwash him/her you should be warned once, then shown the door.
I get to teach my child an ethical system, I'm their parent. You get to teach them math, science, etc. that's it.
I don't know you, I didn't hire you, and I certainly haven't given you permission to indoctrinate my child. Get away from my kid's heart, teach his mind, that is what you were hired for
. If you don't heed this advice, yes, you will feel like you've tangled with some fairly ugly wild animal.

It's that important. And always will be.
 
It's the school principal that needs to be fired much more so than the teacher, for trying to pass the buck to the police instead of handling the problem.
 
Jared Marcum, 14, said the shirt did not violate Logan Middle School's dress code policy.

"I was surprised. It shocked me that the school didn't know their own dress code and their own policy. I figured they would have known not to call me out on that shirt because there was nothing wrong with it," Marcum said in a telephone interview.

Marcum's stepfather, Allen Lardieri, said the youth was waiting in line in the school cafeteria Thursday when a teacher ordered the eighth-grader to remove the T-shirt or to turn it inside out.

Marcum said was sent to the office where he again refused the order.
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From the Charleston Daily Mail a few days ago. The kid is back in school, which suspended him for one day only. Not sure if anyone is going to pursue it any further legally. My guess is that the teacher in question has probably been told to cool his jets, in Logan County there are lots more guns than people.
 
pmeisel, as I noted above I've had this sort of a fight with my kids school before. I've had a high rate of success because of just the reason you mentioned.
The teacher involved was clearly outside the rules.
It wouldn't surprise me if the reason the student body got ugly during the incident is because the teacher has alienated a large number of them by being a jerk in the classroom. Think about the teachers that were respected while you were in school, would they have been treated this way by large numbers of kids?
 
First, we all realize that after the one day suspension (Fri. Apr. 19th) that this same student wore the same T-Shirt to school on Mon. the 22nd... Don't We? Not only that, but many of this kids friends wore similar T-Shirts that same day. No One Was Hassled By The Teachers Or Staff!

Oh! You didn't know that? http://news.yahoo.com/w-va-teen-arrested-t-shirt-flap-back-165956399.html

Secondly, students do not leave their 1A rights at the schoolhouse door: Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)

Finally, this is exactly the kind of 1A violation that Tinker has said was not to happen. Oh, and everyone is aware that the NRA has backed several such cases in the past and has won all of them, as civil rights violations? You don't? Do your research, before you gainsay what is going on here.

Although Tinker has been modified in the intervening years, I don't believe any of the exceptions are relevant to this case. Here, the school was blatantly wrong and is now in full CYA mode. This is most evident in that the T-Shirt is now not the issue, when it was the primary cause of the original confrontation.
 
Thanks Al, I appreciate the citation, I knew there had been some sort of case but couldn't remember enough about it to even search.
Interesting to note none of the news reports mentioned it, champions of the first amendment that they are.
Yes, I had kept up on the news reports and knew about the kids wearing the shirts, which is why I noted above that corrective actions are taking place.

This sort of bullying by teachers is far more common than you think, and get's reported seldom. The administrators know it goes on, more than one has candidly admitted it to me. Because of union rules, tenure, etc., they cannot get rid of these problem individuals.
These are rogue teachers so to speak. They don't know, or simply don't care about rules and student's rights. They are ideologues, with a focus that is different than your average teacher. I'll give you odds that the principal didn't need to be told which teacher it was who started this.

My purpose was to educate folks about these circumstances so that they could fight the battle with their children as well.
 
Note that the school did not have him arrested. They did call the cops. It was up to the cops as to whether or not they made an arrest. They chose to do so.
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The school had a choice, they could have handled the matter internally, with the student, teacher, Principal, and parents. I have had such meetings many times, I always prevailed without incident.

The school decided to involve LE. And, the Police have latitude not to arrest, unless the kid poses a threat, or, unless they have a complainant who is willing to press charges, and follow through. Given the charge, it appears the school was initially willing to do just that, then saw retrospectively that they were wrong, and backed away.

students do not leave their 1A rights at the schoolhouse door: Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)
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Thanks for the link Al, my point exactly. If you raise your kids to go to school and, mindlessly accept the orders of just any "authority figure" you are creating another sheep. (exactly what the schools would prefer) And, that mindset carries over into adulthood, just the kind of thing we all (ourselves) try and avoid being.

ETA: Schools are supposed to be about education, that process involves more than just absorbing material, it requires creativity, and self expression. If you remove those, or try and squash them, it stops being educating. IMO.
 
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For those of you that say what the shirt had on it was unimportant, imagine this - a black student wearing a Malcolm X t-shirt and told to reverse it. Malcolm X was a convicted felon and black separatist; would his picture not be "disruptive"? Perhaps a Hispanic youth and a Che Guevara t-shirt? Communist murderer, very disruptive.
It's because of the targeted youth and targeted group that it becomes politically acceptable to attack, as there are two groups of people who are not only not protected from discrimination, but actively targeted by every level - smokers and gun owners. This was pure politics, and as pointed out, the student and hundreds of his buddies showed up in NRA t-shirts without incident, because the school knew it had screwed up. Yes, I believe the student's family could certainly file a lawsuit, and should.
 
Secondly, students do not leave their 1A rights at the schoolhouse door: Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)
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Yes and no. Students most certainly do leave some of their 1A rights at the door. Tinker v. Des Moines was not carte blanche stating schools had no control over any aspect of the 1A. Schools can and do have dress codes, can and do tell students when and where they are allowed to voice themselves and in what manners. Remember that Tinker v. Des Moines allows for free speech so long as it is not disruptive or interfering with the educational process. This is a key caveat.

So the question then is whether or not the shirt can be considered disruptive or not. Obviously, nobody here will think so as we all support the topic.
 
So the question then is whether or not the shirt can be considered disruptive or not.
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True, in this case I'd put a finer point on it... Who made the shirt suddenly become disruptive?
My money is on the teacher who cried foul during lunch after it had been worn 1/2 the day.
 
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